Foreman The Greatest Heavyweight Ever?

[Miburo]

Definitely the best heavyweight brawler, but not quite best overall. I'd say top 5 though for certain.

[BKM-]

Im a Big Fan of Most of the Great Fights, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Louis , Liston, Marciano, you name them, but i think Foreman was just a freak of nature, Not many of The greats could have done what he did in his comeback. Even Tyson turned down 20mil to fight George, and George was old lol

I think his comeback is somewhat overrated. First of all Holyfield had a field day with him, Big George did not give him all he could handle. Bert Cooper did. He had a few good moments, at times a live punching bag and Evander only had to be cautious and boxing to win. And the fighters like Tyson who supposedly avoided him, that's questionable.

Foreman is a certified ATG because
-he has more than 2 historic career defining wins
-has an all around solid list of names on his record
-actually has longetivity
-is one of the Heavyweights which not many fighters could have beaten, and he would have been a handfull for anybody/compete in any era(although IMO this doesn't matter so much to me).
-And of cource winning back the title at his age.

Now, these are all the positive things. The negatives bring him down to about Top 5 or Top 10 ATG HW.

[.:PRINCE:.]

You say the only reason Ali beat him was because he was outsmarted, well that's a legitimate enough reason. Boxing isn't all about punching power, its about the technique you used, Foreman really had no technique, he was just a power fighter. He was arguably the greatest of his time but far from being the greatest of ALL TIME.

[0Rooster4Life0]

I think his comeback is somewhat overrated. First of all Holyfield had a field day with him, Big George did not give him all he could handle. Bert Cooper did. He had a few good moments, at times a live punching bag and Evander only had to be cautious and boxing to win. And the fighters like Tyson who supposedly avoided him, that's questionable.

Foreman is a certified ATG because
-he has more than 2 historic career defining wins
-has an all around solid list of names on his record
-actually has longetivity
-is one of the Heavyweights which not many fighters could have beaten, and he would have been a handfull for anybody/compete in any era(although IMO this doesn't matter so much to me).
-And of cource winning back the title at his age.

Now, these are all the positive things. The negatives bring him down to about Top 5 or Top 10 ATG HW.

He DID Give evander all He could Handle And he was never The same after the Foreman Fight, THe Last Round he was hanging on for his life, Even the Biased Commentators said "THe young man is holding on for his life".

[0Rooster4Life0]

You say the only reason Ali beat him was because he was outsmarted, well that's a legitimate enough reason. Boxing isn't all about punching power, its about the technique you used, Foreman really had no technique, he was just a power fighter. He was arguably the greatest of his time but far from being the greatest of ALL TIME.

I agree that Ali deserved the win, but would he have won a rematch? Also saying his FAR from being the greatest of all time, is abit harsh, He Is a fighter that had the power to beat anyone, And a chin to take alot of shots, If he had the Mind of the old Foreman when he was in his prime, he would be unbeatable.

[LondonRingRules]

No. Not even close. There are plenty of fighters who could have beaten him, and quite frankly his accomplishments don't stand up to those of Ali, Louis, Holmes, Lewis etc. You must be quite a big fan of his.

** A credible case could be made for Foreman.

All that has to be done is enhance his accomplishments which you haven't done, and pick at all the weaknesses in the above fighters, and BINGO, you got the typical American, biggest, most powerful, greatest nation ever, "We're #1" mantra that is the extent of most analysis.

I've always found it instructive to actually compare the fighters to their peers, and Big George and Big Lar are the same age, except........

If boxing were school, Lar would be in special ed. At age 19 with a very limited amateur background, George blasts his way to a 1968 Olympic gold medal against the Soviet/Cuban bloc professionals. Not just a gold medal, but becomes one of the most iconic moments of arguably the greatest Olympic year ever. Not sure what Lar is doing, probably pushing a broom.

Plenty of honor in honest labor. Life is about opportunities and timing and never fair or equitable in that regard. George got into trouble, not Lar, so net result: George gold, Lar broom.

OK, moving on, not sure why George is held back at this point, so scholarship might be needed, but he turns pro a year later, age 20 and within a few fights he's already whoopin' up on Wepner, and the next year on Chuvalo. Let's keep in mind that Ali is the undefeated exiled champ and Frazier the new undefeated champ. Again, not sure what Lar is doing, maybe starting his amateur career, but George has already cut himself into the so called Golden era in a big way with big splash. Ali sure wasn't fighting mature contender types out of the box like that and he's long been held as a young phenom with extensive storied amateur credentials before turning pro.

I'd say George's so called accomplishments are starting to stack up nicely to two era peers you've mention, exceeding in his own fashion.

Moving on, Lar seems to start appearing in Ali camps early in his comeback as Ali can be seen arguing with Cosell about Lar's ability in the ring just before he's knocked ****** by Dwayne Bobick, knocking him out of the 72 Olympic trials. By the time Lar turns pro in 73, George is the new undefeated heavy champ, having bounced the man who bounced the man and making it look like a picnic. George at this point is 3-0 against common Ali title contenders.

By the time of George's retirement in 77, he arguably has a better record against common competition than Ali does. He certainly takes care of the business in much easier fashion, and even his sole loss to Young he puts up a much better scrap than did Ali in his travesty against Young.

What's Lar doing? Not sure exactly when he officially "leaves" Ali's tutelage, but at the time of George's retirement, Lar has zero title contenders on his record and not until 78 when he wins a decision over Shavers and sc****s out a hotly contested split against a fading Norton.

Seems like George has plenty of accomplishments. Some talk about Lar's breaking Rocky's record and how he was robbed by "The Man" who robbed Ali against Frazier, but you never hear them talk about his record of ununified title defenses.

Lar does mighty fine for himself and sure doesn't need to bother with what I think, but today we got the WBC Floydy belts, the IBF Toney belts and the Larry belts that he helped these folks keep as well split as possible, and this is supposed to pass as elite greatness? Even Roy and Joe managed to unify at some point. Manny doesn't really need belts any more.

So I hear about these titles as accomplishments, I'm starting to see pimps in rhinestone. There has to be a more credible look at the records and eras.

Now, Lar was a fine fighter, plenty of spirit, stayed more disciplined than most, but don't make me run a comparsion of their eras when George wakes up one day and decides he wants to become heavy champ of the world again.

Ali given much credit by many for his faith which, if true, leaves him with poor means of financial support for 3 yrs as a convicted felon, finally overturned by the Supremes. I've never had a problem crediting him for his beliefs as derranged as they were. He's a product of his times and left all that behind and it was quite something to behold in the day.

Yet George was snickered at for his faith and 10 yr commitment to it at the exclusion of boxing. We've all heard them along with "quitter," 'no stamina or plan B," "seeing dead people" and other things.

At the end of the day, George has significantly more wins than any you listed above, indeed, more KOs than any listed have wins, less losses than half of those listed. Yet he loses most of his prime years to his faith.

I don't claim George as the greatest, but I do say that all you mentioned could be beat, so just claiming George could be beat to dismiss his accomplishments seems terribly biased. You didn't list Rocky and he was never beat, though he marked up better than some.

[Grand Champ]

1. Ali
2. Foreman

Foreman all the way

[MarkScott]

He was a great one. But he would always have trouble with clever boxers. Remember that feather-fisted Jimmy Young beat him.

[BKM-]

He DID Give evander all He could Handle And he was never The same after the Foreman Fight, THe Last Round he was hanging on for his life, Even the Biased Commentators said "THe young man is holding on for his life".

No, he really didn't. Stewart, Cooper and Bowe all in defeat gave Evander a lot of trouble.

A lot of it had to do with Evander himself. Brawling, that's something that came as an instinct to him. Whenever he did against the fighters I mentioned, he had a lot of trouble.

With Foreman, he BOXED a masterful fight and Foreman only had a few good moments as a result.

Do you not remember a couple of sequences where Holyfield was hitting poor George with what seemed like 20 consecutive punches?

What he did was he showed a lot of heart and determination, but he was easily beaten against smart good/great boxers.

[Knighte]

One of the greatest? Maybe.

THE greatest? No.