Stephen “Breadman” Edwards, a week after the controversy led by Keyshawn Davis and with Mario Barrios-Manny Pacquiao nearing, answers your questions and assesses your assertions in his latest mailbag.
Sir,
I’m a big fan of your mailbag. Great insights always. Quick one – who are you picking in Pacquiao vs Barrios and how do you think it will end? Second, how do you think Pac vs Tank Davis will end up, if indeed Pac will fight Tank Davis next?
All the best to you, GLT
Bread’s response: I think I’m going to go with Barrios. And I don’t rule out a KO. I can see him catching Pacquiao jumping in with a counter left hook. Southpaws who rush in don't see the counter hook well. See Donaire vs Darchinyan. I don’t think Pac can beat Tank Davis at this point.
First of all, commiserations about your two fighters losing. I really respected your honesty in the interview you gave afterwards. I hope it isn't too soon and still too raw for me to be writing about it. I'm writing not with the intention of the mail being printed, just that I hope you will like reading it and get something from it. I don't want to seem like a know-it-all or that I'm being critical of the job you did either, because I'm not. I am a very honest person, just like you are. In hindsight I would as an outsider probably have given Kyrone a 10 per cent chance of beating that guy, and with how strong Resendiz looked on the night it was probably actually 60-40 in his favour going by the actual two human beings in there – at Caleb's age, stage of his career, and the style match-up, despite what everybody thought going in to it, including me. I agree that Hernandez was an extremely tough challenge and might just have been better. The only thing I could see that I thought Kyrone could try was to try fighting out of a crouch and use the guy’s long arms against him. He did buzz Hernandez a little bit at one point with a left hook. Although for the first time it did look a little bit like Kyrone was intimidated. Hernandez is going to stop a lot of people. It is going to be real tough for Plant from here on out. He has always had a tendency to fade late in fights before you ever worked with him. So guys are going to follow that same playbook and try and get to the later rounds and turn it up on him, like you said. I actually think his conditioning has improved a little since he's been working with you. Benavidez would've stopped him without you training him for that fight. I don't agree that Plant should try to win the early rounds easy without expending too much energy. The way I see it you can only really do that if the opponent complies, as if they want to make it a Hagler-Hearns war and really push it that far you're going to have to fight back. It would be better to deplete the opponent early if possible, with hard body shots – again, that's if you can land them. It's a fight at the end of the day. I also think that if you're going to try to win the early rounds easy and you're a fighter like Caleb who traditionally fades late, you're kinda screwed if that plan A doesn't work and you can't bank enough rounds. Even if it does work, the opponent is still going to have energy to apply pressure later. Not trying to go all “Rocky III” but I do also think that Caleb would benefit from coming to Philly to a camp in that type of environment. I don't remember the round but Caleb took all the wind out of Resendiz with a hard right uppercut to the body – the guy hardly did anything for about a minute and a half and was taking deep breaths through his mouth. He was fucking him up when he landed to the body. I would have tried to land body shots and tie up to conserve energy and “steal” the rounds that way, but it's not me in there fighting. If he goes for a rematch he's going to have to fuck this guy up and dog him early in my opinion, excuse my language. I think that idea would appeal to Caleb's personality even. I drafted this email almost a week ago and have been trying to think of a fight like this as an example, but it's eluding me. Maybe Fulton-Figueroa II? I'm sure you know examples that would fit my description. But I'm not a professional coach getting paid good money to do this and I also don't see the fighters in camp and know exactly what they have so I could be way off in my ideas. It may even just be that Caleb is too old and his gas tank is not good enough for a guy like Resendiz either way.
As a side note, I noticed your guy Mike Rodriguez switched over to the other corner – I don't think I've seen that before on the same night. He was going mad at the ref and damn near told him to eff off at one point when he threatened to take a point from Resendiz. He was fully committed and straight down the line. It makes me think he's a stand-up guy and can probably see why you trust and work with him. I have seen Erron Peterson stop people with one punch before – it's just that as you know it gets harder to do that when you start moving up in competition. I believe punchers are born and not made; I also agree with you that punching power can also be improved. If he can develop to his potential he will be a problem. If he is able to start developing 15-round shape now before his aerobic capacity starts to decrease with age then, as an outsider, he might have everything needed. It's very interesting that you pointed out grip strength correlates with punching power. I've been paying attention to it since you said that and it really is true. One thing I seem to have noticed is when you see guys with “square” looking shoulders they seem to have power. It must indicate the way the tendons insert into the bone or something – I don't know if you noticed the same. Julian Jackson has quite square angular looking shoulders. Guys with poor KO records who look like that usually punch harder than their record says. Two more things, about Hamzah Sheeraz. Eddie Hearn when talking about something else said recently that Frank Warren doesn't miss, and he's right – he rarely does. Queensberry might have the second best matchmaking in boxing behind Top Rank. Ahead of the Usyk-Dubois rematch Warren has been saying a lot that Usyk doesn't like it to the body, based on him watching every single one of Usyk's available amateur and pro fights. So it's making me think they've studied Berlanga super deep and seen something they like, and think they know Sheeraz can “do him”, as we say in the UK. Second, at the press conference and based on other interviews I've seen of Sheeraz on his way up, I can tell he's been around the street and rough areas a little bit – just certain ways he acts and terminology he uses. So I suspect that he won't be intimidated by much in his whole career, including Berlanga making gun motions. It doesn't mean he will show the heart Berlanga did late on against Canelo – I've seen plenty of rough dudes who don't have it. But I do know that he won't be fazed. I really can't place what went on with Adames – maybe him changing teams to Andy Lee after that fight tells us something. If we are going by their last performances I'd pick Berlanga, but I just can't shake the feeling Queensberry know something, and I do believe Hamzah is champion material.
About Canelo-Crawford, I've been keeping it to myself but as of now there are only three ways I can see the fight going, if it's on the level. Canelo points; Crawford points; Crawford KO. When I think about it, it all really comes down to how Canelo chooses to fight. As the bigger guy it's in his hands to some extent how the fight plays out – Crawford really isn't likely to push him back. So the way I see it, it is either Canelo tries to box his way into the fight and box with Crawford, meaning this way he loses on points as Crawford is just too good at solving guys. Or he tries to come forward in that walk-down style he's had for a few years now, and put damage on Crawford for the later rounds where he knows that his own gas tank will be weak. Equally, he tries to do this early to all his opponents to intimidate them and get them to shell up and reacting to feints somewhat. We'll see if he can hurt or intimidate Crawford. It worked on Charlo, who is probably the closest in size, but Crawford isn't Charlo. Canelo will probably do the latter, in which case I see him either depleting Crawford enough early and banking enough rounds to win on points, as Crawford I think is too tough, too well-conditioned and too good to let him stop him or get caught with one big KO shot. Or, he will gas himself out and become the sitting duck like you said, and start getting beaten up late in the fight. I don't see Crawford letting him off the hook if the KO is there – it would be out of character. The Toney-and-Holyfield fight was a great reference – I'd never actually watched that before you mentioned it. I didn't study tape of Canelo and Crawford but I don't think it will change my mind much, given what I know about both guys and how many of their fights I've watched live. I do need to check if Canelo's gas tank is as bad as I'm making out, or if it's just worse – relative to how he used to be – but still good enough to get him through and the win. I also need to think about whether the stance Crawford fights from can affect it. Going southpaw will bring his liver closer to Canelo's left hook.
Bread’s response: Kyrone Davis was in against what is possibly the best middleweight in the world. Hernandez didn’t show up on film as good as he did versus Kyrone, but that’s how the game works. Fighters improve. We tried different things throughout the fight to gain momentum but nothing was sustained. Kyrone actually has a longer reach on paper but Hernandez seems more rangy. I wanted Kyrone to get close but Hernandez had a say in that. I don’t have an excuse. Kyrone had a very good camp. He was on time for his workouts. He didn’t miss one gym, S&C or recovery session. We sparred a very good amount of rounds. Our weight cut was good and we rehydrated good. Sometimes you just run into a guy who is having his night. I think that’s what happened because we did everything we could in camp and in the ring. I also think the early knockdown kept us a step behind. Hernandez landed some hard shots and it took time for Kyrone to recover. I salute Kyrone, because most middleweights would have been stopped that night and he finished on his feet, trying his best. It’s nothing more to say about that.
Caleb is a fighter who has been criticized in his career for fading late in fights. My first fight with him was against Anthony Dirrell. I was well aware of the criticism against Caleb and I worked diligently to overcome it. In the Dirrell fight, Caleb carried his power late and he scored one of the better one punch KOs of the decade. We then faced David Benavidez who is, in my opinion, one of the top two or three pure pressure fighters of this era. Everyone gets tired versus Benavidez, but Caleb went the distance and gave a very good account of himself despite losing the fight. We then faced Trevor McCumby. Caleb made a great in-fight adjustment. Fought on the inside; got stronger as the fight went on, and got a late-round stoppage. In each camp I made a concentrated effort to battle-harden Caleb, so when he faced the possibility of a late-round fade he was able to overcome it.
Out of respect for Caleb, I haven’t spoken publicly about the Resendiz camp in detail. From the outside, people assume what went wrong and they guess. One of the guesses is that Caleb overtrained. That’s not true. We make an effort to not over train. Caleb is very resourceful when it comes to his recovery. There is literally no way possible that he overtrained for the Resendiz fight.
I don’t disagree with your take on how Caleb should overcome fighters coming on late against him. There are several ways to overcome a late surge and there is really no wrong answer because there is more than one way to skin a cat. But you have to understand that a fighter’s temperament is a fighter’s temperament. And it may not be in Caleb’s temperament to be overly violent early in fights. Caleb is a fast-paced fighter but he’s a boxer by nature.
For example, when I first worked him out, I was surprised at how hard he punched. He’s very explosive and he has hard hands. But in fights he didn’t display the type of power I saw in the gym. The reason for that is simple. Caleb is a boxer by nature who happens to be somewhat explosive. A physical trait and a personality trait are different.
My point is it may be unnatural for him to be overly violent early in a fight. So although a fighter can evolve and change, it’s difficult to get someone to do something against their natural temperament. We already got him to fight better down the stretch. We already improved his infighting ability. But change comes with time. And I haven’t got to the point yet where I could confidently send Caleb out to put serious hurt on a guy early and expect him to be confident that he would have enough energy down the stretch.
I have a theory on how to handle pressure fighters – go to their body. Trucks can’t run you over if their tires are flat. We worked on it in camp. Caleb is a good body puncher. But again – we weren’t able to sustain it. Resendiz was very confident because of Caleb’s body language, in my opinion. So while Caleb landed some nice shots, Resendiz had hope. I will give you an example of what I mean. Arturo Gatti took as much or more punishment versus Mickey Ward than he did versus Floyd Mayweather. But he was able to go the distance with Ward because he was landing punches of his own and he had hope. In his fight with Floyd he was stopped in six rounds because he had no hope. Floyd’s body language and demeanor didn’t give Gatti or his corner any hope that that onslaught would stop. But in the Ward fight, because Gatti was able to hit Ward and get his attention, he was willing to march on through brutal punishment because he had hope. It’s deep but this is something I talk to my fighters about.
Mike Rodriguez is my guy and we go back 15 years. We have worked over 50 fights together. I trust him with my fighters’ lives. We got our start at the same time. But while I use Mike as my cut man for most of my fighters, Caleb has his own cut man in Stitch Duran and I respect that. Stitch is also a great cutman. Mike told me he got the Resendiz job and he was professional about it. It happens more than you may realize. It’s really no big deal.
I am very excited about Erron Peterson’s progress. Let’s see where it goes.
Hard punchers have several traits. Grip strength is actually the number-one thing I look for. If you have an extremely hard grip then that means your weapon, which is your fist, is very compact at the moment of impact. I also look for compact legs and balance. The kinetic energy of a punch starts at the feet. So if your legs are strong and balanced, you should be able to generate power. And you’re correct –those square shoulders like Julian Jackson’s usually generate power. But I want to add – loose-but-powerful shoulders. Not the ones that are overly tight. Good observation. There are all types of power and a keen eye knows that, say, David Tua’s power, is generated differently than, say, Tommy Hearns’.
Frank Warren has been very good at matching his fighters against Eddie Hearn’s fighters. That’s just the reality. So I respect Warren’s eyes. I actually agree with you about Sheeraz. I like his demeanor. I like his quick wit. What I don’t like is his static attack. He’s a big target, in my opinion. And I don’t like how he reacted versus Carlos Adames. That was a winnable fight. But I want to give Sheeraz grace. I have seen athletes who need to be on the big stage more than once in order to respond correctly. Sometimes, it’s just like that. Fighters are human beings and before things were given mental-health labels, it was just simply called “butterflies”. I personally try to not micromanage observations.
Hamzah Sheeraz was anointed as the best middleweight prospect in the world, training under Ricky Funez. He got a draw and now Funez is no longer working with him. I don’t know what happened with that. But I do know that trainers get blamed, fired and persecuted no matter what really happened. And it’s a shame. I haven’t heard an explanation, but obviously something went wrong…
What’s so fascinating about Berlanga versus Sheeraz is that I believe both teams think they know something. Berlanga has been carefully matched and, thus far, they have done good by him on his matchmaking. Sheeraz has been matched a little harder but not over his head. I think Berlanga has an ever so slight edge, but I will admit my view is shifting. But in full transparency, unless it’s Lennox Lewis, Joe Calzaghe or Naseem Hamed, most hyped British fighters don’t live up to the expectations in big fights.
If you want an example, look at how many UK fighters won medals in recent Olympics but couldn’t win world titles as pros. It’s a bizarre phenomenon that puzzles me somewhat.
I’m very intrigued by the Sheeraz versus Berlanga match-up. I love 50-50 match-ups between fighters in their primes.
I think Canelo has no choice but to try to put hurt on Bud early. If he waits and is conservative, I think that plays into Bud’s hands. I personally think this fight comes down to how comfortable Bud is with Canelo’s power. If Bud finds Canelo’s power to be “brutal”, then I think he can still win, but the fight will be up for grabs. If he finds Canelo’s power “manageable” then I believe he flat-out wins the fight. Let’s see what happens.
Bread,
Missing weight is actually pretty easy to fix. First, the party that makes weight has the option of cancelling the fight if they feel overly disadvantaged. The offending party has no option but to honor the stipulations of the contract. More importantly, if the fight does go on, the following process take place – one second into the fight the referee calls timeout and tells the judges to deduct one point for each pound above the contracted weight the offender weighed. In last week’s fight Davis would be down ten-five or nine-six after one round. De Los Santos would only need to stay on his feet and win five rounds to win that particular fight. Now the disadvantages are mostly mitigated, and the motivation to make weight is maximized, knowing that there are consequences that may lead to a loss on the offender’s record. What am I missing?
Jeremy
Bread’s response: Your resolution is extreme but I like it. I would add that a five-per-cent-per-pound rule should be in place for the offending fighter to have to pay the fighter who made weight. In this case, Edwin de los Santos would get an extra 200k for compensation. I also think that when a fighter misses weight the opponent has the right to not fight and still get his entire purse. The reason why fighters still fight is because they’re usually the B-side fighter and they need the money. De Los Santos is blessed to have Sampson Lewkowicz. I was in that same exact situation with Kyrone Davis versus Elijah Garcia and we had to fight. It worked out for us, but as you know, it doesn’t always work out.
Hello Bread,
Following up on the mythical time-travel question from last week, if you could be the head trainer for any fighter in five historical bouts, which fights would you choose? For each, what game plan or advice would you give to either change the outcome, shift the fighter’s trajectory, or make a good win even more decisive?
Thanks,
Irfan
Bread’s response: I don’t really like time-travel questions but this is a pretty good… I am going to pick losers of historically significant fights. The first fight that comes to mind is Chavez versus Taylor. I wouldn’t do one thing different for Meldrick Taylor except tell him to scream “I’m OK” once he gets knocked down. All of the punishment that he supposedly took – I wouldn’t change that because he gave out more than he took. I wouldn’t even change the knockdown. But as a coach I wouldn’t jump on the apron. I wouldn’t distract him like Lou Duva did. But I would tell him to literally scream “I’m OK” to Richard Steele to eliminate that excuse. I would also tell Richard Steele to pay attention to Chavez as he strayed from the neutral corner.
My next fight would be Ali vs Spinks I. I would train Ali like his life depended on it. It’s obvious Ali trained harder for the rematch than he did the first fight. For some reason you have people in this era throwing up in Ali’s face that he lost to a 7-0 Spinks. It sort of irks me because of how special of a fighter he is. So to avoid people trying to elevate other fighters over him because he lost to Spinks, I would make sure he got it right the first time.
I would also hydrate Sugar Ray Robinson correctly in the Joey Maxim fight. It’s the only fight Robinson ever lost by stoppage in over 200 fights. And he lost it due to heat exhaustion. As a trainer I would slow Robinson down somewhat. Although he was winning, he used too much energy early. I would make sure we were prepared for the heat with plenty of ice in the corner. And I would make sure Robinson was hydrated properly, so he could’ve been a three-division champion, adding to his already incredible legacy.
Manny Pacquaio vs Floyd Mayweather. If I trained Manny I would stress to him he needed to take the fight during the same time span he fought Hatton, De La Hoya and Cotto. I would stress to him that because he’s smaller than Floyd and his style is less energy efficient, that his window to beat Floyd is smaller than Floyd’s window to beat him. I don’t know if Manny could’ve solved the Mayweather puzzle, but he would’ve had a better chance to do it circa 2009 than circa 2015. No other fights come to mind right now.
Good day, Mr Edwards,
There have been a few articles and videos put up to remember the Body Snatcher, so I wanted to pick your brain about him. Can you discuss his style a bit? What was his best win? His best run? And where do you think he fits in the historical rankings?
Cheers,
Gabriel
Bread’s response: Mike McCallum was a smooth, efficient, boxer-puncher who could counter punch and liked to work inside. He boxed, but he boxed without over-moving or sacrificing his offense. And he counter punched to the body better than probably anyone in history. He was also never stopped, despite being a guy who stayed in front of his opponents through four weight divisions. McCallum is an all-time great.
I think his best win is against Julian Jackson. At the time, no one knew Jackson was a HOF calibre fighter and an all-time-great puncher. McCallum stepped right to the big puncher, got buzzed a little bit, but went to his body, disarmed him and stopped him in two rounds. It’s one of the more underrated wins of the 80s. Jackson would not lose another fight until seven years later.
McCallum is no worse than the top two at junior middleweight. He’s a top-10 ever body puncher, and he’s one of the top 10 to 15 fighters of the 80s. His best career run was his junior-middleweight title run. He was undefeated at the weight and all of his title defenses were by KO – including KOs of Donald Curry and Julian Jackson.
I think McCallum ranks in the same range of all-time greats as guys like Felix Trinidad, Wilfred Benitez and Marcel Cerdan. Not quite M. Rushmore level fighters. But firmly within the all-time great ranks.
Hi Bread,
Hope all is well with you and your family. In any sport, oftentimes when the team or fighter lose you see and hear the ridicule against said losing team or fighter. You also hear the cliché phrases about “going back to the drawing board” or “working harder in the off-season or in between fights”. A lot of the angst is directed towards the players or fighters themselves. As a coach, mentor, trainer, how do you bounce back and get better after a loss with one of your fighters? And does the process change, depending on your role with the fighter (i.e. whether you worked the corner that night, handled the business part, or was a secondary coach)?
Bread’s response: Good question. There is an art to bringing back a fighter, but no exact blueprint. As you know, I’ve done it several times. If you have control over the matchmaking, bringing a fighter back is not very hard, in my opinion. You take a step back with the matchmaking and then match the fighter accordingly, until you see the things you saw before he took the loss.
Obviously it depends on the loss. If it was a split decision that could’ve gone either way, it’s just a matter of getting back in the ring. If it was a competitive fight but the fighter got stopped, then it may take a little longer, but it’s a matter of building that confidence.
It’s important, you stress, that the fight was competitive and there was just a momentary lapse that caused the stoppage. If it’s a brutal stoppage loss, that may be harder, but you would need to stress maybe the opponent was special. I’m a very optimistic person, so I feel like with a willing fighter I can get past just about anything. I try to identify what went wrong, address what went wrong without stressing it constantly, and allow the fighter to have success in the gym and success in their fights following the loss. Success cures most problems in sports. Success cures most problems in life. It builds confidence, rhythm and a routine. Put the fighter in position to have success, and the loss will be a faded memory.
The top boxing headline of this past weekend was this – a card was ruined by a fighter missing weight. As always, it sparked a debate about professionalism, who should be blamed, and ruined a night of boxing. I am here to point out the obvious – the issue of fighters missing weight could be solved by boxing promoters and the championship title belt organizations tomorrow. Boxing could go back to weigh-ins on the day of the fight. The championship title organizations could force everyone to make weight randomly all the time. They already do random drug testing – they could just bring a scale to those tests. This would force fighters to fight in their natural weight classes. Boxing would be safer. This was openly discussed before the promoters took control of all boxing media. If I’m aware of this idea, I know the promoters and the boards in power at the championship title belt organizations are aware of this idea. So, why doesn’t this happen? It’s because the promoters want their young fighters to be weight bullies. They want those fighters to drain weight, which becomes harder as you age. The idea is to allow them to beat up old, smaller men, usually fighting above their natural weight. Many of these older fighters have big names, are at the end of their careers, and are accepting of a beating for money. The young fighters and their promoters take advantage. They use those older fighters as a resume builder. The young fighter then captures titles in weight classes full of fighters who can’t stand up to their power and size. As his star rises and he collects more belts, those championship organizations get enriched by sanctioning fees that are a based on a percentage of the purse. It clearly benefits the promoter and the sanctioning belts to allow fighters to manipulate their weight in an attempt to win titles in multiple weight classes. That doesn’t mean it’s morally correct. That doesn’t mean it benefits anyone else. I would even argue the heavyweight division is so popular, because weight is never an issue. That young fighter eventually can’t drain himself, moves up in weight, and becomes the old guy he was beating up 15 years prior. By that time, the promoter has already squeezed every dime out of the boxer. The title belts have already made all the sanctioning fees they can. I apologize for the long email. I had to set the story because it isn’t being covered anymore and this is important. I am not lying when I say it used to get covered. We even had unofficial same day weights in the tale of the tape. It was considered to be a huge deal and a tool to determine a winner. So my question is this – why does boxing allow this to happen? Why doesn’t someone write an article pointing this out? Where is the adult in the room to protect the health and safety of the fighters? Where is the adult in the room who is advocating for the fans who don’t want to see fights get cancelled? Where is the adult in the room protecting the paychecks of the fighters who are doing the right thing? Where is the adult in the room who is protecting the paychecks of everyone who depended on that show to pay their bills (trainers; cut men; etcetera)? I apologize for the long email again. I truly believe if you publish this, you will be addressing a serious issue no one talks about. I believe you will be doing a service to the sport.
Bread’s response: I don’t think it’s realistic to go back to same-day weigh-ins. It would turn boxing upside down, on its head. Fighters are stubborn – they would still try to make weight and things would be a mess. You would have to be around fighters on a regular basis to understand what I’m saying. The damage that would be done would be insurmountable. Now, here is what I think could be done.
Mandatory random weight checks and exams – not so much a limit but reasonable random checks to see where the fighters are on weight. Exams to see if a fighter is dehydrated. For example, if you have a fighter who is 10 pounds over weight the week of the fight and he’s fully hydrated, you know he can make weight. If that fighter somehow comes in over, then you know he just didn’t want to lose the weight. We have seen that.
In another example, if a fighter is 20 pounds over 10 days out, you know you may need a back-up opponent on standby because that’s going to be a hard weight cut most times. I also believe fighters should be mandated to pay hefty fines for missing weight. Oftentimes the only punishment is a negotiated percentage of the purse and the fight goes on. That punishment is worth it, to some fighters. A punishment is called a punishment for a reason. A fighter who misses weight shouldn’t be able to negotiate their own punishment. The punishment should be so severe that it deters a fighter from missing weight again. The punishment should be money and a suspension, and not just paying their opponent, but a fine that has to be paid immediately to the commission. Missing weight wouldn’t be so funny if the punishment had a severe bite.
Hi Breadman,
If I could ask you about Joe Calzaghe versus Jeff Lacy, and Carl Froch versus Lucian Bute. I’m a British fight fan and the super middleweights have a high standing for me, with such a great legacy and an exciting history (Eubank; Collins; Benn; Watson; Calzaghe; Groves; DeGale), but these two nights stand out as real stand-out nights for two of my favourite fighters, and yet they are somehow tarnished a little by the post-fight careers that the beaten fighters went on to achieve (very little, truth be told). They should have been career defining, but they are cribbed. So, my question is regarding the standing of the beaten fighters? They came over here as favourites, maybe not huge favourites, but considerable. They both got whooped, in very different ways. In hindsight, certainly in Britain and based on their final legacy, they have been dismissed as “not that good in the first place” and therefore the legacy of the victors is equally tarnished (in Calzaghe’s case, more so than Froch). Where they never that good, or did they just come up against their kryptonite and never recovered? Jeff Lacy was 21-0 with a massive KO record and reputation. He had beat Robin Reid, who most thought had a case for beating Calzaghe and lost by decision. I don’t recognise a lot of names on his ledger apart from that, but he was the IBF champion and was coming over to beat Joe up. Joe was sensational that night. He beat Lacy at everything. The best he ever looked and at the time he was giving all the props. But now there is shade because Lacy got beat up the rest of his career. I watch Calzaghe v Lacy all the time.
Bute was 30-0. There is a lot more names on his record that I recognise, and he was considered a brute. Great amateur as well, and huge for the weight. While his record had names, maybe not a standout and maybe shades of fighting people who were past it or he got them at the right time. He missed the Super Six, so he was waiting for these guys. We know what Froch is. Weird; does so much wrong; relies on that chin. Even in this fight, he’s winging in ungainly hooks, jumping in, getting caught, but he’s relentless. He shocked Bute to a standstill that night. It was ugly to watch but thrilling and beautiful all the same. Froch’s legacy is already outstanding – he fought everyone. Got put in his place versus Ward, but apart from that beat anyone put in front of him. But the Bute win is hardly mentioned now, because Bute went on to look terrible for the remainder of his career. Did these guys just get the fight beat out of them? I would have loved to read a pre-fight mailbag on these fights. I think you would have picked Calzaghe. I don’t think you are as hot on Froch, but I appreciate he beats the sum of his parts.
Do you have any other examples of similar fights (I know I came from a very pro-British standpoint)? Any nights where you have seen a big-reputation fighter just get the fight beat out of him or vice versa, and you have seen a hype job get exposed and never come back? As a side note, the British scene is really depressing now. The well is not dry yet but it’s super shallow. We have brought it upon ourselves – we get behind circus fights like Benn and Eubank – it’s just becoming a big shame.
Thanks,
Andrew, Durham, UK
Bread’s response: You know what? I think Carl Froch exposed Lucian Bute. Bute had a perfect record and a very high KO percentage. As you correctly stated, Bute didn’t participate in the Super Six, so he sat on the sidelines and waited out the tournament. If Carl Froch didn’t beat him, there would be a large segment of experts stating that Bute may have been the best super middleweight of the era. I hate that type of logic but that’s what we are up against. I’m glad Carl Froch put an end to that nonsense. Froch stepped right to Bute and knocked him out. Then Bute didn’t exercise a rematch clause that would’ve been in his hometown, which displays Froch’s dominance.
I give Froch full credit for the Bute win. In my opinion it’s his career-best win. Not only that, after their fight Bute tested positive for PEDS against Badou Jack. That makes the win even more impressive, because most times the first time a person gets caught doing something wrong isn’t the first time they actually did it. It’s easy to look back now and take credit away from Froch. But you have to use context and consider how the fight was viewed at the time. Froch was the underdog at home and Bute was an undefeated, pound-for-pound level fighter. That’s the most important aspect of contextualizing this fight. More people thought Bute would win than thought Froch would win because Bute had a perfect record and was more aesthetically pleasing. So it’s not fair to Froch to go back and take credit from the victory because, in fact, he totally beat the fight out of Bute.
The same thing happened with Calzaghe versus Lacy. But I have to mention, in fairness to Lacy, he never tested positive for PEDs, so I give him more grace in losing to just a better fighter. I wasn’t that surprised that Froch beat Bute because I never liked how Bute got that gift vs Librado Andrade. The “long count” in that fight was the most despicable example of official corruption that I have ever saw. So while I thought highly of Bute, I was skeptical. Calzaghe beating Lacy was no shock. But the way Calzaghe did it totally shocked me.
Lacy would have been better off getting hit with a bomb in one round than taking that beating. Calzaghe dropped water on concrete until it cracked. Fighters like Calzaghe and Aaron Pryor beat the fight out of opponents. That constant attack from a mean volume puncher is worse than taking just one bomb from a huge puncher. Lacy had to get over the physical beating and future opponents looking at him like he was “just a man”. The toughest part about losing a big fight is how much confidence your future opponents fight you with. Lacy or Bute couldn’t get past that specific aspect of losing. Calzaghe never lost, but Froch was able to get past that, and it’s why he’s a HOF.
Hi Breadman,
I pray God is blessing and continues to bless you and your family and the fans of your mailbag and their families. I’m laughing at the response to Keyshawn Davis and people saying it is the end of his career. I’ve never seen the young man fight and was going to watch him for the first time against De Los Santos because to me, him, Mason and Hitchins are all still prospects. I don’t watch these guys until they face someone who I consider a stern test. I saw De Los Santos have Shakur scared to death to throw a punch, so I was looking to see how Davis would do against him. I was disappointed in Davis for not making weight, but after I heard about him and his brothers jumping the guy, I recently watched two of his fights for the first time – against the guy he jumped, and in an amateur fight against Andy Cruz. He has gotten more attention this weekend than he has for his whole career. We live in a world where negativity and drama sells. Ryan Garcia just made millions for fighting “Rolly” Romero and I heard his career was over. Mike Tyson is a convicted felon and is the biggest draw in boxing. If he fights Jake Paul in a rematch he will sell out because all I’m hearing from people is that he fixed the fight. Keyshawn has now become a villain that people will tune in to, hoping he gets his butt kicked. Bad publicity helps to sell in today’s sick, twisted, demented society. God bless, and take care,
BG from Philly, Peter Allen
Bread’s response: I can’t say I disagree but let’s wait until this plays out. Keyshawn not only missed weight but the incident that took place, post-fight, will have to be sorted out before he continues his career. But again, controversy sells, so you’re most likely right.What are your thoughts on Nahir Albright winning against Kelvin Davis, then being attacked after the fight by Keyshawn and Keon? I also wanted to know if Edwin de los Santos will get paid his full purse after Keyshawn missed weights? When a fighter misses weight, who’s responsible, the fighter, trainer, or strength coach?
Bread’s response: I’m very happy for Nahir Albright. He did his thing. It’s not easy coming in on the B side in a fighter’s hometown and winning a decision. As you can see, Kelvin Davis got the benefit of most of the close rounds because that fight was not close enough to be a majority decision. Albright won at least seven rounds; most likely eight. So a judge giving Davis five rounds tells you how tough it is to win a fight under those circumstances. But Albright pulled it off. Props to him, hopefully he gets a nice six-figure payday in his next fight.
I don’t know if De Los Santos got paid. I heard he did. Then I just heard he didn’t. Hopefully it gets sorted out because he deserves to be paid. He surely didn’t do anything wrong. He made the weight and got on the scale and weighed in. Maybe some clarity on the situation will come out pretty soon, but as of now I’m not sure what the truth is.
When a fighter misses weight, the trainer is usually responsible. Even if the fighter has someone assigned to the weight-cutting aspect, the media, fans, promoters and commission all ask the trainer what happened. So as a head trainer it’s not about whose fault it is. The trainer is responsible to the people on the outside looking in. It’s why the head trainer should have a say in all boxing-related decisions, because when the decisions don't go well the head trainer is blamed regardless.
The inner workings of the team is different. I’m not part of Keyshawn’s team, so I don’t know if his strength coach is responsible for his weight cut, if his trainer is, or if he hires a professional company to do it. I literally have no idea how their team is set up. All I know is four pounds is a very big miss as far as weight is concerned. There’s no other way to describe it. It’s a big miss and it’s unprofessional, especially since Davis fought not too long ago. If he would’ve missed weight by a half a pound or something small like that and looked a little depleted then it wouldn’t look so bad. But he appeared happy and he said he wouldn’t try to cut anymore weight. Some people took that as a lack of sincerity in trying to make weight in the first place.
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