Name a Great Heavyweight and a skill that distinguished them.

[The Old LefHook]

This thread is awfully general and wide open. They all have qualities and skills of all sorts. I think if you are going to pick a quality or talent, it at least had ought to be the most prominent one for that boxer. That is the only way I can proceed, with your permission..

Holmes had some lateral movement. All right, but was that his most distinguishing trait? There were other heavyweight boxers that had superior lateral movement to Holmes, so why should his lateral movement be set aside to distinguish him, when he has such an abundance of traits and techniques to choose from? I feel If anything distinguishes Holmes it is his jab.

Most prominent attribute:

Marciano--Durability
Frazier--Relentlessness
Clay--Speed
Louis--Combination punching.
Dempsey--Short punches
Holmes--Jab
Tua--Lefhook
Morrison--Lefhook
Cooney--Lefhook
Corbett--Lateral movement
Tyson--Balanced attack
Liston--Finishing ability
Fury--Illegal open glove to pose the opponent by lifting his head before the punch
Fitzsimmons--Solar plexus punch
Patterson--Leaping lefhook
Norton--Right foot drag (not necessarily positive), or Overhand right.
Foreman--Strength & Power
Johnson--Clinches
Lewis--Caution
Jefferies--Stamina
Chuvalo--Chin
Jimmy Young--Slipperiness
Johanssen--Thunder hammer
Tom Sharkey--Milking muscle?
Tunney--Footspeed
Chris Byrd--Shoulder roll

[markusmod]

This thread is awfully general and wide open. They all have qualities and skills of all sorts. I think if you are going to pick a quality or talent, it at least had ought to be the most prominent one for that boxer. That is the only way I can proceed, with your permission..

Holmes had some lateral movement. All right, but was that his most distinguishing trait? There were other heavyweight boxers that had superior lateral movement to Holmes, so why should his lateral movement be set aside to distinguish him, when he has such an abundance of traits and techniques to choose from? I feel If anything distinguishes Holmes it is his jab.

Most prominent attribute:

Marciano--Durability
Frazier--Relentlessness
Clay--Speed
Louis--Combination punching.
Dempsey--Short punches
Holmes--Jab
Tua--Lefhook
Morrison--Lefhook
Cooney--Lefhook
Corbett--Lateral movement
Tyson--Balanced attack
Liston--Finishing ability
Fury--Illegal open glove to pose the opponent by lifting his head before the punch
Fitzsimmons--Solar plexus punch
Patterson--Leaping lefhook
Norton--Right foot drag (not necessarily positive), or Overhand right.
Foreman--Strength & Power
Johnson--Clinches
Lewis--Caution
Jefferies--Stamina
Chuvalo--Chin
Jimmy Young--Slipperiness
Johanssen--Thunder hammer
Tom Sharkey--Milking muscle?
Tunney--Footspeed
Chris Byrd--Shoulder roll

Tua for chin as well. One of the best chins I've seen at heavyweight.

[Ivich]

- - Wlad left was a poleaxe left jab and KO machine left hook with a half dozen variations between them.

Lar don't stand a chance.

[Ivich]

Tua for chin as well. One of the best chins I've seen at heavyweight.

Somebody didn't spot the word GREAT in the title .

[Anthony342]

Durability is good. I'd also say will to win/coming through in the clutch for Marciano. He won close decisions from what I've heard in the first fight with Lastarza and seen in the footage of the first Ezzard Charles fight then came back to stop Lastarza and Charles in rematches. In the Charles rematch, Rocky came up big, avoiding a stoppage loss of his own due to a cut across his nose.

Foreman-heavy hands
Hearns-straight right

[mrbig1]

Johnson defense
Holmes counter punching, best I've seen for a HW.
Ali ring smarts can beat you with both his mind and fist.

[billeau2]

This thread is awfully general and wide open. They all have qualities and skills of all sorts. I think if you are going to pick a quality or talent, it at least had ought to be the most prominent one for that boxer. That is the only way I can proceed, with your permission..

Holmes had some lateral movement. All right, but was that his most distinguishing trait? There were other heavyweight boxers that had superior lateral movement to Holmes, so why should his lateral movement be set aside to distinguish him, when he has such an abundance of traits and techniques to choose from? I feel If anything distinguishes Holmes it is his jab.

Most prominent attribute:

Marciano--Durability
Frazier--Relentlessness
Clay--Speed
Louis--Combination punching.
Dempsey--Short punches
Holmes--Jab
Tua--Lefhook
Morrison--Lefhook
Cooney--Lefhook
Corbett--Lateral movement
Tyson--Balanced attack
Liston--Finishing ability
Fury--Illegal open glove to pose the opponent by lifting his head before the punch
Fitzsimmons--Solar plexus punch
Patterson--Leaping lefhook
Norton--Right foot drag (not necessarily positive), or Overhand right.
Foreman--Strength & Power
Johnson--Clinches
Lewis--Caution
Jefferies--Stamina
Chuvalo--Chin
Jimmy Young--Slipperiness
Johanssen--Thunder hammer
Tom Sharkey--Milking muscle?
Tunney--Footspeed
Chris Byrd--Shoulder roll

I think for Holmes his lateral movement was even more important than his jab. I think there are many heavyweights who had a jab at least in the neighborhood of Holmes... Ali, Liston (different but great), Vlad, etc ... What made Holmes so good imo was the ability to be able to use his head movement to make guys miss without going backwards. While fighters accomplish distancing in different ways, Holmes moving across the opponent with his head & shoulder movements allowed him to set up for the jab and counter punch never being out of position. Ali was different because he could actually step backwards... a "no no" for mere mortals with regular reflexes lol. Someone like Jack Johnson/Roy Jones could use the parry, catch shots on the gloves... Holmes was able to slip and keep position just moving his head and shoulders properly. Usyk uses the same kind of movement but imo he gets hit a lot more than HOlmes did.

Watch the first and second round... Now obviously the jab is fabulous but notice the subtlety: Holmes never backs straight up. He always moves laterally and resets... finds a point to walk to after a flurry.


Compare that to Usyk against Joshua. Cruder example of same lateral movement and reset. First round for comparative purposes



Now lets compare Fury against Vlad... Different approach:

Fury is using angles and controlling the space between them. Fury takes a step back, is fighting off the back leg so he can see everything Vlad is doing... he uses feints and angles to come into the space between them and control it... usually scoring with a jab. Fury is fighting like a throwback fighter with these skills and for our purposes they are a total contrast to what Holmes and usyk accomplish with lateral movements.

My point being to show in this case how important it was for Holmes to set up his jab, counter punch, etc... IMO it all comes off moving across opponent, with a reset at the end of the line. In so doing using the head and shoulders to avoid instead of going backwards.

[The Old LefHook]

Tua for chin as well. One of the best chins I've seen at heavyweight.

I suppose I went for the skill rather than the trait. But you are right. Even Lewis could not come close to hurting Tua. I don't believe the president did either.

[The Old LefHook]

I think for Holmes his lateral movement was even more important than his jab. I think there are many heavyweights who had a jab at least in the neighborhood of Holmes... Ali, Liston (different but great), Vlad, etc ... What made Holmes so good imo was the ability to be able to use his head movement to make guys miss without going backwards. While fighters accomplish distancing in different ways, Holmes moving across the opponent with his head & shoulder movements allowed him to set up for the jab and counter punch never being out of position. Ali was different because he could actually step backwards... a "no no" for mere mortals with regular reflexes lol. Someone like Jack Johnson/Roy Jones could use the parry, catch shots on the gloves... Holmes was able to slip and keep position just moving his head and shoulders properly. Usyk uses the same kind of movement but imo he gets hit a lot more than HOlmes did.

Watch the first and second round... Now obviously the jab is fabulous but notice the subtlety: Holmes never backs straight up. He always moves laterally and resets... finds a point to walk to after a flurry.


Compare that to Usyk against Joshua. Cruder example of same lateral movement and reset. First round for comparative purposes



Now lets compare Fury against Vlad... Different approach:

Fury is using angles and controlling the space between them. Fury takes a step back, is fighting off the back leg so he can see everything Vlad is doing... he uses feints and angles to come into the space between them and control it... usually scoring with a jab. Fury is fighting like a throwback fighter with these skills and for our purposes they are a total contrast to what Holmes and Usyk accomplish with lateral movements.

My point being to show in this case how important it was for Holmes to set up his jab, counter punch, etc... IMO it all comes off moving across opponent, with a reset at the end of the line. In so doing using the head and shoulders to avoid instead of going backwards.

Good analysis. I have no objections to different opinions. Sometimes I switch sides. Clay, Tunney and Corbett had better lateral movement IMO, more out in the open and noticeable. If they stepped back, too, what does that matter, except they were exploiting a technique Holmes did not have in his arsenal or have the reflexes for? Remember though, I am only listing what I think is their main important attribute. You are listing any important attribute, I am listing what I think is the most outstanding. The jab was the only hard punch for its type that Holmes had. Other than the jab, he was an average puncher for force. But I believe his jab was the best and hardest in heavyweight history. That is why I settle on the lef jab--he had the best one ever, by consensus.

[markusmod]

Somebody didn't spot the word GREAT in the title .

Great chin. Had it all for a short guy, but couldn't keep his weight in check.