Worst Well-known cases of Pugilistic Dementia in Famous Fighters thread.

[Tatabanya]

Terry Norris use to have full on sparring sessions with his brother Orlin for years. I had a friend that trained and sparred with them and he said they would go at it ike they were trying to kill one another.

Guys like Benitez and Young are always surprising to me given their defensive prowess. But you can never tell with this kind of yhing.

Yeah, sometimes it's a matter of coincidences, or unknown causes. Perhaps Young had more gym wars than we suspect...

[Bundana]

The sad case of the Moyer brothers, Denny and Phil, is documented in the excellent After The Last Round. Pretty heavy stuff!

[QueensburyRules]

- - Pretty obvious with Ali who disguised his injuries with his comic personality and tricks of an amateur magician.

[JAB5239]

- - Pretty obvious with Ali who disguised his injuries with his comic personality and tricks of an amateur magician.

Ali was diagnosed with Parkinsons, which may or may not have been caused by his career. Dementia is in fact a high likelihood hood in the later stages of PD. I'm not saying he couldn't have had dementia or CTE (in all likelihood CTE is probable) only that his family never came out about that as far as I know. Ali lived with his diagnosed disease for more than 30. I'm not a doctor or an expert, but I am not aware of anyone living that long with Pugilistica dementia. The average lifespan for someone with dementia is 10 years.

[QueensburyRules]

Ali was diagnosed with Parkinsons, which may or may not have been caused by his career. Dementia is in fact a high likelihood hood in the later stages of PD. I'm not saying he couldn't have had dementia or CTE (in all likelihood CTE is probable) only that his family never came out about that as far as I know. Ali lived with his diagnosed disease for more than 30. I'm not a doctor or an expert, but I am not aware of anyone living that long with Pugilistica dementia. The average lifespan for someone with dementia is 10 years.

- - Nobody in athletics ever had such a magnificence of modern Health Care Experts poring over Ali often gratis either.

[JAB5239]

- - Nobody in athletics ever had such a magnificence of modern Health Care Experts poring over Ali often gratis either.

What is your point? Are you trying to say they extended Ali's life even though he had dementia? Undiagnosed of course.

[Willie Pep 229]

Na to all that!

Ali got punched in the head too many times, that's all there is to it.

The rest are excuses, so that the the family, the friends, the mangers, the trainers, the hanger-ons, the fans, the fight game itself, can all say "I wasn't responsible." Nuances nothing moore.

Boxing killed Muhammad Ali and a thousand others. You want to think otherwise, you're just BSing yourself.

See: Who Killed Davey Moore, by Bob Dylan.

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I", said the referee
"Don't point your finger at me
I could've stopped it in the eighth
An' maybe kept him from his fate
But the crowd would've booed, I'm sure
At not gettin' their money's worth
It's too bad that he had to go
But there was a pressure on me too, you know
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not us", said the angry crowd
Whose screams filled the arena loud
"It's too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight
We didn't mean for him to meet his death
We just meant to see some sweat
There ain't nothing wrong in that
It wasn't us that made him fall
No, you can't blame us at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", said his manager
Puffing on a big cigar
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell
I always thought that he was well
It's too bad for his wife an' kids he's dead
But if he was sick he should've said
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the ******** man
With his ticket stub still in his hand
"It wasn't me that knocked him down
My hands never touched him none
I didn't commit no ugly sin
Anyway, I put money on him to win
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the boxing writer
Pounding print on his old typewriter
Sayin', "Boxing ain't to blame
There's just as much danger in a football game"
Sayin', "Fist fighting is here to stay
It's just the old American way
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist
Who came here from Cuba's door
Where boxing ain't allowed no more
"I hit him, I hit him, yes, it's true
But that's what I am paid to do
Don't say 'murder, ' don't say 'kill'
It was destiny, it was God's will"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

[JAB5239]

Na to all that!

Ali got punched in the head too many times, that's all there is to it.

The rest are excuses, so that the the family, the friends, the mangers, the trainers, the hanger-ons, the fans, the fight game itself, can all say "I wasn't responsible." Nuances nothing moore.

Boxing killed Muhammad Ali and a thousand others. You want to think otherwise, you're just BSing yourself.

See: Who Killed Davey Moore, by Bob Dylan.

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not I", said the referee
"Don't point your finger at me
I could've stopped it in the eighth
An' maybe kept him from his fate
But the crowd would've booed, I'm sure
At not gettin' their money's worth
It's too bad that he had to go
But there was a pressure on me too, you know
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not us", said the angry crowd
Whose screams filled the arena loud
"It's too bad he died that night
But we just like to see a fight
We didn't mean for him to meet his death
We just meant to see some sweat
There ain't nothing wrong in that
It wasn't us that made him fall
No, you can't blame us at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", said his manager
Puffing on a big cigar
"It's hard to say, it's hard to tell
I always thought that he was well
It's too bad for his wife an' kids he's dead
But if he was sick he should've said
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the ******** man
With his ticket stub still in his hand
"It wasn't me that knocked him down
My hands never touched him none
I didn't commit no ugly sin
Anyway, I put money on him to win
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the boxing writer
Pounding print on his old typewriter
Sayin', "Boxing ain't to blame
There's just as much danger in a football game"
Sayin', "Fist fighting is here to stay
It's just the old American way
It wasn't me that made him fall
No, you can't blame me at all"

Who killed Davey Moore?
Why an' what's the reason for?

"Not me", says the man whose fists
Laid him low in a cloud of mist
Who came here from Cuba's door
Where boxing ain't allowed no more
"I hit him, I hit him, yes, it's true
But that's what I am paid to do
Don't say 'murder, ' don't say 'kill'
It was destiny, it was God's will"

Who killed Davey Moore
Why an' what's the reason for?

I am not so convinced. Surely it took years of his life, but he still lived a relatively long life given the circumstances. The average age life expectancy for someone with CTE is 51 years old. He lived nearly a quarter century longer than that. Micheal J. Fox is in nearly the state Ali was in when he was the same age. I'd venture a guess that Fox has hardly ever, if ever been punched in his life. Fox has had Parkinsons for about 30 years. Ali had it for at least 35 years and was older than Fox when diagnosed. Boxing contributes to every fighters death. Getting punched in the head does that. It takes time off your life. That doesn't make it the thing that kills you though. Just my thoughts.

[GhostofDempsey]

Iran Barkley
Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Sandy Saddler
Emile Griffith

[JAB5239]

Iran Barkley
Ray Robinson
Willie Pep
Sandy Saddler
Emile Griffith

Does boxing cause dementia, or is dementia a by product of old age? I met Willie Pep around 1999 at Foxwoods casino at some fights. He was well spoken and intelligent as well as funny. He sat and talked with me and my friends for 10 or 15 minutes. A few years later he was diagnosed with Alzheimers. He had been out of boxing for decades. Why then? I know and believe there are correlations, I just don't think it applies to every case of every boxer who has gotten it. I'm not a doctor though, so what do I know?