Will Russia dominate boxing in the next decade?

[them_apples]

Tactical nuclear war.

these bombs are about true size of a baseball.

if China ****s with us it will be bloody.

nukes won't happen. Everyone loses. Nukes will be the last to happen.

[Ivich]

nukes won't happen. Everyone loses. Nukes will be the last to happen.

That's rather the point of them.

[Dr. Z]

I think the US would resort to nuclear war first,their experience in Viet Nam will have directed them that way.

Hush you imperfect speaker. The USA to Vietnam kill ratio was 10 to 1. Is the USA wanted to, they would convert the jungles of Vietnam into a parking lot. The politics of the times prevented further advancement, not the USA army.

[Ivich]

Hush you imperfect speaker. The USA to Vietnam kill ratio was 10 to 1. Is the USA wanted to, they would convert the jungles of Vietnam into a parking lot. The politics of the times prevented further advancement, not the USA army.

The US had total command of the Air and Sea and were vastly superior in weaponry and technology they carpet bombed neutral Cambodia and denied it was happening .They lost.
How many of that "kill ratio " were innocent civilians?
The US military lost over 58,000 personnel.Tell me what for?

1. 
   
   
   A 1975 US Senate subcommittee estimated around 1.4 million civilian casualties in South Vietnam because of the war, including 415,000 deaths. An estimate by the Department of Defense after the war gave a figure of 1.2 million civilian casualties, including 195,000 deaths. [1]
   • Civilian deaths (North and South Vietnam): 405,000–627,000
   • Total deaths: 1,353,000
   • PAVN/VC military deaths: 444,000–666,000
   • US and allied military deaths: 282,000
   • Don't talk to me about the "jungles of Vietnam,",you ignorant fool, I've been there ,and Cambodia

[Willie Pep 229]

For the record you both gave the same numbers.

I just want to steal a moment and throw in my pet peeve.

We site the ARVN as incompetent and cowardly. (And sometimes even foolishly blame them for the failure.)

Yes, they were terriblely lead and in the end no match for their motivated brethren.

BUT when you look at Ivich's Allied Deaths: 282,000. Please realize two hundred thousand of them are South Vietnamese boys.

Some sure as hell were fighting.

[QueensburyRules]

For the record you both gave the same numbers.

I just want to steal a moment and throw in my pet peeve.

We site the ARVN as incompetent and cowardly. (And sometimes even foolishly blame them for the failure.)

Yes, they were terriblely lead and in the end no match for their motivated brethren.

BUT when you look at Ivich's Allied Deaths: 282,000. Please realize two hundred thousand of them are South Vietnamese boys.

Some sure as hell were fighting.

- - Indeed as Stormin' Norman Schwarzkoph details in his most excellent autobio highly recommended.

As I mentioned, Vietnam was an extension of the Korean War where the UN finally got a truce and DMZ established to form the current two Koreas after Truman ditched MacArthur who was in position to completely drive Mao back to where he came from in China.

So Truman gave Communism their first officially recognized foothold in Asia at the behest of the UN. Mao followed up by driving ********** Chinese into Taiwan where those **********s became a founding member the UN Security Council along with the French, British, Soviets, and US.

The Mao led mainland Chinese were accepted as a UN member state in 1949, and allied with the Soviets eventually replaced Taiwan on the Security Council. This where North Vietnam led by Ho Chi Minh decided to drive the French out of Vietnam where the US becomes involved because of the Domino theory of fighting Communism. Don't think Lyndon ever had the backing of the UN because of that Chinese power grab. Point in fact he ran a largely surreptitious financed war during his tenure in Vietnam where Lyndon and MacNamara micromanaged the war for political purpose supposing a sane leader would eventually come to make peace.

Twas never meant to be resulting in a poor health retirement as Nixon took over for his own ignominy as he made the peace with the North that Americans were screaming for back then. Schwarzkoph was personally devastated as he had become very close to the Southern Viets who taught him jungle warfare that most fat Americans could never understand. His close friends were either killed in the take over, captured to be repurposed in education camps with maybe a few electing to flee for safe havens.

[Ivich]

For the record you both gave the same numbers.

I just want to steal a moment and throw in my pet peeve.

We site the ARVN as incompetent and cowardly. (And sometimes even foolishly blame them for the failure.)

Yes, they were terriblely lead and in the end no match for their motivated brethren.

BUT when you look at Ivich's Allied Deaths: 282,000. Please realize two hundred thousand of them are South Vietnamese boys.

Some sure as hell were fighting.

And , sure as hell plenty of them were innocent civilians who had their homes torched, their livestock butchered and their families napalmed,and parts of their country turned into desert by Agent Orange .
The US had no business in Viet Nam it was a small snowball rolling down a mountain , that rapidly grew and grew until it could not be contained,It ended with half a million pairs of US boots on the ground.
A war that was televised to an extent that was unheard of previously,TV coverage of those body bags inexorably returning sensibly turned public opinion against the tragic debacle.The US should have learned for France's mistake.France at least had the tenuous excuse they had a connection there.ie French Indo China.
Anyone wishing to know the truth about the conflict has only to watch Oliver Stone's excellent documentary series on Viet Nam
The same goes for the US' involvement in Central America ,it's role in destabilising elected governments and replacing them with dictatorships that were headed by ruthless thugs whose only qualification was they were rabidly anti commmunist and willing to do Uncle Sam's bidding.

[Ivich]

- - Indeed as Stormin' Norman Schwarzkoph details in his most excellent autobio highly recommended.

As I mentioned, Vietnam was an extension of the Korean War where the UN finally got a truce and DMZ established to form the current two Koreas after Truman ditched MacArthur who was in position to completely drive Mao back to where he came from in China.

So Truman gave Communism their first officially recognized foothold in Asia at the behest of the UN. Mao followed up by driving ********** Chinese into Taiwan where those **********s became a founding member the UN Security Council along with the French, British, Soviets, and US.

The Mao led mainland Chinese were accepted as a UN member state in 1949, and allied with the Soviets eventually replaced Taiwan on the Security Council. This where North Vietnam led by Ho Chi Minh decided to drive the French out of Vietnam where the US becomes involved because of the Domino theory of fighting Communism. Don't think Lyndon ever had the backing of the UN because of that Chinese power grab. Point in fact he ran a largely surreptitious financed war during his tenure in Vietnam where Lyndon and MacNamara micromanaged the war for political purpose supposing a sane leader would eventually come to make peace.

Twas never meant to be resulting in a poor health retirement as Nixon took over for his own ignominy as he made the peace with the North that Americans were screaming for back then. Schwarzkoph was personally devastated as he had become very close to the Southern Viets who taught him jungle warfare that most fat Americans could never understand. His close friends were either killed in the take over, captured to be repurposed in education camps with maybe a few electing to flee for safe havens.

MacArthur wanted to use nuclear weapons ,where would that have lead?
If Truman thought he could have won a ground war in Korea he would have told the UN to go **** themselves,he was offered a face -saving way out and wisely took it.
Johnson had lost the support of his party, he had no choice but to make his," I shall not seek ,nor shall I accept," speech.
Good post ,you can do it when you want to Queenie!

[them_apples]

For the record you both gave the same numbers.

I just want to steal a moment and throw in my pet peeve.

We site the ARVN as incompetent and cowardly. (And sometimes even foolishly blame them for the failure.)

Yes, they were terriblely lead and in the end no match for their motivated brethren.

BUT when you look at Ivich's Allied Deaths: 282,000. Please realize two hundred thousand of them are South Vietnamese boys.

Some sure as hell were fighting.

also, the vietcong were using a very smart way to wage war - although cruel to their own kind, it was. You are right about the casualties, because the USA was getting so much backlash at home because people were hearing it was just a massacre of kids (it happened a lot, thats why all the vietnam vets were so ****ed up compared to their ww2 fathers. Not to say those guys were stone cold, but many of them seem to have lived good lives after depending on the campaign they fought in. nam” has a long list of casualties mentally. A lot of these kids didn’t want to go, or wanted to go for different reasons believing the usa news narrative. In a short training camp, out of high school, a year later the young man has personally flame throwered a village and knowingly, and trained to take orders setting fire to the women and kids. These guys were never the same.

[QueensburyRules]

MacArthur wanted to use nuclear weapons ,where would that have lead?
If Truman thought he could have won a ground war in Korea he would have told the UN to go **** themselves,he was offered a face -saving way out and wisely took it.
Johnson had lost the support of his party, he had no choice but to make his," I shall not seek ,nor shall I accept," speech.
Good post ,you can do it when you want to Queenie!

- - Well, it obviously led you to here and now tooting your Ollie Stoned Hollywood Tabloid History like a Whoopee Cushion.

MacArthur was never consulted or knew about Truman's controversial decision to drop the NUKE, thus hearing it on the radio like every other civilian. However, Mac had driven Mao out of Korea into a poor tactical position that he could've wiped out conventionally but for Harry's fragile UN alliances that would melt if Mao was wiped out.

The idea was to create the DMZ at the Chinese border, not dividing Korea that has led to blistering infectious flareups to this day.
1whoopee%2Bcushion.jpg