Duran vs Barkley should be studied for its mastery

[IronDanHamza]

No one is calling Barkley great. He was a big MW with a good punch. You would think he could beat a big fat lightweight. Most MWs could unless that lightweight is Roberto Duran. This is not how bad Barkley was but rather how great Duran was. Duran is a top 10 all time P4P great.

Aren’t they? He’s literally being laughably compared to ATG middleweights in this very thread.

Well you just said it yourself, didn’t you? You’d think a Middleweight would beat a Lightweight. Well yeah I would, if the Middleweight wasn’t an average fighter.

That version of Duran isn’t going to beat any top tier Middleweights regardless of how great he was so it’s almost entirely down to Barkley being average.

Duran still deserves credit for his win because at the end of the day he was old and small he had no business winning an actual legitimate belt at that weight class coming from 118 lbs as a professional so he gets all the credit in the world for that achievement but let’s not act like beating Barkley is some great feat because it absolutely is not.

[GhostofDempsey]

**** Tiger beat Joey Giradello in 1959 mate, Giardello retired in 1967. That is 8 years later so you seem unsure of what the word “ Immediately “ means.

Gene Fullmers last run of fights going into his trilogy with **** Tiger;

Basilio W
Spider Webb W
Giardello D
Basilio W
Robinson D
Robinson W
Fernandez W
Kid Paret W

Not a bad run is it and he was clearly not shot. I never said Fullmer was in his prime. Does that sound washed up to you?

HOF fighters that **** Tiger beat in their prime;

Joey Giardello
Nino Benvenuti
Jose Torres x2

Now how many did Barkley beat? Oh yeah, Zero.

Go one further, how many Top 10 ranked fighters did Iran Barkley beat? Do you know?

How many do you think **** Tiger beat in comparison?

You are totally clueless mate.

The fact you actually just tried to compare **** Tiger and Iran Barkley is flat out embarrassing.

Fullmer retired right after their fights, Giardello beat him in ‘63. Can’t say Hearns was washed up while claiming Fullmer and Giardello was prime. Giardello, Fullmer and Benvenuti were not as great as Hearns either. Either was Torres the ducker who retired a year after their fight. Certainly not at his best.

I’m not comparing Barkley to Tiger, only pointing out Tiger lost to a bunch of nobodies, even in his prime. Both of them were inconsistent.

[IronDanHamza]

I’m not comparing Barkley to Tiger, only pointing out Tiger lost to a bunch of nobodies, even in his prime. Both of them were inconsistent.

Well actually that’s exactly what you’re doing.

I said nothing about consistency, I said Barkley was an average fighter which he absolutely was. That has nothing to do with whether he was consistent or not. And in fact he was consistent in his career, he consistently lost to every decent fighter he fought outside of a passed it Tommy Hearns. Which is why, he was an average fighter.

You then responded to that with your outrageous and weird comparison to **** Tiger when Tiger is in another stratosphere to Barkley which I’ve broken down why and it seems you have no response for.

You asked me to name the prime fighters Tiger beat. I just gave you 4 wins over prime HOF’ers. Now you can go ahead and list the equivalent for Barkley.

Why don’t you just name the Top 10 ranked fighters he beat. Should be easy shouldn’t it, for a fighter who’s not average?

I also would like to hear more about how Joey Giardello was washed up and “ retired soon or almost immediately after “ in 1959 even though he hadn’t even won a world title yet and retired 8 years later. Care to elaborate on that?

[IronDanHamza]

Fullmer retired right after their fights, Giardello beat him in ‘63. Can’t say Hearns was washed up while claiming Fullmer and Giardello was prime. Giardello, Fullmer and Benvenuti were not as great as Hearns either. Either was Torres the ducker who retired a year after their fight. Certainly not at his best.

I’m not comparing Barkley to Tiger, only pointing out Tiger lost to a bunch of nobodies, even in his prime. Both of them were inconsistent.

Jose Torres wasn’t in his prime now? He’d just won the title a year prior you fool.

Joey Giardello was in his prime in 1959 when **** Tiger beat him.

Nino Benvenuti was in his prime when **** Tiger beat him.

That’s 4 wins over prime HOFers. Now do the same for Barkley.

“You can’t say Hearns was washed up while claiming Fullmer and Giardello were prime”

WHERE did I say Hearns was washed up?

WHERE did I say Fullmer was in his prime?

Please quote me saying either of those things or you can put that in your box of “ Make believe things people have said “

I said outside of a passed it Tommy Hearns he lost to every decent fighter he faced.

Either dispute that with an actual logical argument not ridiculous comparisons or shut the fuck up.

They are your choices.

[GhostofDempsey]

Jose Torres wasn’t in his prime now? He’d just won the title a year prior you fool.

Joey Giardello was in his prime in 1959 when **** Tiger beat him.

Nino Benvenuti was in his prime when **** Tiger beat him.

That’s 4 wins over prime HOFers. Now do the same for Barkley.

“You can’t say Hearns was washed up while claiming Fullmer and Giardello were prime”

WHERE did I say Hearns was washed up?

WHERE did I say Fullmer was in his prime?

Please quote me saying either of those things or you can put that in your box of “ Make believe things people have said “

I said outside of a passed it Tommy Hearns he lost to every decent fighter he faced.

Either dispute that with an actual logical argument not ridiculous comparisons or shut the fuck up.

They are your choices.

Torres retired a year after they fought. He was the same age as Hearns when Barkley fought him, idiot. So Torres was prime at 30 but Hearns was washed up? Torres never beat an ATG, unless you think a washed up Pastrano was great!

[Willie Pep 229]

Jose Torres wasn’t in his prime now? He’d just won the title a year prior you fool.

Joey Giardello was in his prime in 1959 when **** Tiger beat him.

Nino Benvenuti was in his prime when **** Tiger beat him.

That’s 4 wins over prime HOFers. Now do the same for Barkley.

“You can’t say Hearns was washed up while claiming Fullmer and Giardello were prime”

WHERE did I say Hearns was washed up?

WHERE did I say Fullmer was in his prime?

Please quote me saying either of those things or you can put that in your box of “ Make believe things people have said “

I said outside of a passed it Tommy Hearns he lost to every decent fighter he faced.

Either dispute that with an actual logical argument not ridiculous comparisons or shut the fuck up.

They are your choices.

I don't think Hearns was past it, at least for the first fight.

Barkley was Hearns nemesis. 60 plus wins. Count the losses: Leonard, Hagler, Barkely (2). *

That really makes no sense.

* I know there is one more loss to U. Grant very late; I think irrelevant.

[kara]

Or maybe Barkley is just an average fighter?

Barkely was average, but he could take you out if you were off your game.

[IronDanHamza]

Torres retired a year after they fought. He was the same age as Hearns when Barkley fought him, idiot. So Torres was prime at 30 but Hearns was washed up? Torres never beat an ATG, unless you think a washed up Pastrano was great!

So because he retired a year after they fought you seem to think he wasn’t in his prime. Why did he retire? Do you know?

So what if they were the same age? Torres was in his prime and Hearns was no where near his prime.

Again, never said Hearns was washed up. WHERE did I say Hearns was washed up? Either quote me saying that or you can put that in your box of “ make believe things people have said “

Never said Torres was an ATG or beat an ATG. I said he was a prime HOFer. Which is a fact.

As was Nino Benvenuti.

As was Giardello, who you said was “ washed up “ and “soon or immediately “ retired after their bout even though he retired 8 years later and hadn’t even won the title yet. Care to explain that or are you just going to ignore that totally clueless observation you tried to make?

Now you can either go ahead and do the same for Barkley as it’s the 3rd time asking or if you can’t then you can shut the fuck up.

They are your two choices.

[IronDanHamza]

I don't think Hearns was past it, at least for the first fight.

Barkley was Hearns nemesis. 60 plus wins. Count the losses: Leonard, Hagler, Barkely (2). *

That really makes no sense.

* I know there is one more loss to U. Grant very late; I think irrelevant.

Ok so memory served me incorrectly as I thought the first fight happened in 1991 and the second 1992 but having checked back the first fight was in 88.

So whilst he wasn’t as far gone as my memory served he, he was still wasn’t in his prime in 1988.

Regardless, even with that Hearns win, he still is an average fighter. Other than that win over Hearns, who has he beat? How many ranked fighters did he beat?

Loads of fighters managed to get one good win during their careers. Loads of average fighters.

Zahir Raheem beat Erik Morales before Pacquaio did. Is he better than average?

Jeff Horn beat Manny Pacquaio, before Pacquaio beat Thurman. is Horn better than average? does Crawford get some kind of major credit because he smashed Horn who’d beaten an ATG in Pacquaio?

Barkley is an average fighter. Duran gets credit for it like I said because he was old and undersized. But it’s not some “masterful” performance. It’s a great little man beating an average bigger man.

[GhostofDempsey]

So because he retired a year after they fought you seem to think he wasn’t in his prime. Why did he retire? Do you know?

So what if they were the same age? Torres was in his prime and Hearns was no where near his prime.

Again, never said Hearns was washed up. WHERE did I say Hearns was washed up? Either quote me saying that or you can put that in your box of “ make believe things people have said “

Never said Torres was an ATG or beat an ATG. I said he was a prime HOFer. Which is a fact.

As was Nino Benvenuti.

As was Giardello, who you said was “ washed up “ and “soon or immediately “ retired after their bout even though he retired 8 years later and hadn’t even won the title yet. Care to explain that or are you just going to ignore that totally clueless observation you tried to make?

Now you can either go ahead and do the same for Barkley as it’s the 3rd time asking or if you can’t then you can shut the fuck up.

They are your two choices.

You said Hearns was passed it, now you're mincing words to squirm your way out of admitting you're wrong. Hearns and Torres were the same age when they fought Barkley and Tiger respectively. They had about the same amount of fights as well. Torres was never great, he ducked Bob Foster and other contenders. Regardless, he can't be prime at 30 while calling Hearns well past his prime at 30. Benvenuti is never mentioned in conversations when we discuss great middleweights, let's not try to pump him up now that you are losing an argument. LOL

Giardello...he lost to Joey in two of their contests. Guess who else beat Joey...Tiger Jones, Spider Webb, Joey Giambra, and a bunch of other fringe contenders. Remind who Joey's biggest wins were again, outside of Tiger? Was it the washed up Robinson or the washed up Fullmer? LOL.

You don't give me choices, you're not dictating anything on here. You can't even get your facts straight or admit when you are wrong.