Tunney-Firpo in 1925

[Willie Pep 229]

I am not big on fantasy matchups that cross eras but I do find the discussion around realistic matchups that were missed, for a plethora of reasons, interesting conversations.

E.g. Dempsey-Wills; Louis-Conn II in '42; an immediate Ali-Foreman rematch. Etc. So here is a what if . . .

First what happened . . . Luis Fripo got screwed by racism.

He entered the country under a work permit in 1923 and was allowed to stay until 1924. Long enough to fight Dempsey and the Wills.

In 1925 he applied to stay in the country to continued fighting, but while he entered the country under the regulations of the 1920 National Origins Act, he was now seeking residency under the new 'White Supremacist' driven National Orgins Act of 1924. An Act designed to foster 'white immigration' while limiting Italian, Eastern Europeans, and Latino immigrants.

The result, he was denied the work permit and deported.

What if . . . Firpo doesn't run afoul of immigration. He comes into 1925 having dropped a12 decision to Wills (which certified Will's standing as the #1 contender), but with the Wills-Dempsey fight always seeming to be a maybe, could we have seen a Tunney-Firpo bout (as an eliminator to Dempsey's next defense in '26)?

So -- Tunney-Firpo in 1925, for shot at Dempsey in 1926. Got an opinion on the outcome?

P.S. Wills beat Firpo by a UD over 12 but scored only a 'cheap shot' KD that the referee refused to count. Otherwise the fight was a close 12 rounder which Firpo didn't walk away looking bad. So I believe the public would have bought a Tunney-Firpo fight as an eliminator.

[QueensburyRules]

I am not big on fantasy matchups that cross eras but I do find the discussion around realistic matchups that were missed, for a plethora of reasons, interesting conversations.

E.g. Dempsey-Wills; Louis-Conn II in '42; an immediate Ali-Foreman rematch. Etc. So here is a what if . . .

First what happened . . . Luis Fripo got screwed by racism.

He entered the country under a work permit in 1923 and was allowed to stay until 1924. Long enough to fight Dempsey and the Wills.

In 1925 he applied to stay in the country to continued fighting, but while he entered the country under the regulations of the 1920 National Origins Act, he was now seeking residency under the new 'White Supremacist' driven National Orgins Act of 1924. An Act designed to foster 'white immigration' while limiting Italian, Eastern Europeans, and Latino immigrants.

The result, he was denied the work permit and deported.

What if . . . Firpo doesn't run afoul of immigration. He comes into 1925 having dropped a12 decision to Wills (which certified Will's standing as the #1 contender), but with the Wills-Dempsey fight always seeming to be a maybe, could we have seen a Tunney-Firpo bout (as an eliminator to Dempsey's next defense in '26)?

So -- Tunney-Firpo in 1925, for shot at Dempsey in 1926. Got an opinion on the outcome?

P.S. Wills beat Firpo by a UD over 12 but scored only a 'cheap shot' KD that the referee refused to count. Otherwise the fight was a close 12 rounder which Firpo didn't walk away looking bad. So I believe the public would have bought a Tunney-Firpo fight as an eliminator.

- - Don't know all the specifics of the highlighted, but Firpo was busted under the Mann Act just like JJohnson, Frank Lloyd Wright and the rest, the real reason he was deported.

In the JJohnson case, it was setting up his former **********/wife/GF in a brothel. With Firpo, his secretary did a lot more than answering his phone and typing. Same deal with Wright and others as the Morality Police made their charge of the White Slavery Act.

Tunney less inclined to trade like Dempsey, and with his savvy footwork, probably pitches a frustrating type shutout for fans wanting a real fight.

[kara]

I am not big on fantasy matchups that cross eras but I do find the discussion around realistic matchups that were missed, for a plethora of reasons, interesting conversations.

E.g. Dempsey-Wills; Louis-Conn II in '42; an immediate Ali-Foreman rematch. Etc. So here is a what if . . .

First what happened . . . Luis Fripo got screwed by racism.

He entered the country under a work permit in 1923 and was allowed to stay until 1924. Long enough to fight Dempsey and the Wills.

In 1925 he applied to stay in the country to continued fighting, but while he entered the country under the regulations of the 1920 National Origins Act, he was now seeking residency under the new 'White Supremacist' driven National Orgins Act of 1924. An Act designed to foster 'white immigration' while limiting Italian, Eastern Europeans, and Latino immigrants.

The result, he was denied the work permit and deported.

What if . . . Firpo doesn't run afoul of immigration. He comes into 1925 having dropped a12 decision to Wills (which certified Will's standing as the #1 contender), but with the Wills-Dempsey fight always seeming to be a maybe, could we have seen a Tunney-Firpo bout (as an eliminator to Dempsey's next defense in '26)?

So -- Tunney-Firpo in 1925, for shot at Dempsey in 1926. Got an opinion on the outcome?

P.S. Wills beat Firpo by a UD over 12 but scored only a 'cheap shot' KD that the referee refused to count. Otherwise the fight was a close 12 rounder which Firpo didn't walk away looking bad. So I believe the public would have bought a Tunney-Firpo fight as an eliminator.

Big fight for sure. As far as the winner, it's another coin flip depending on what you prefer

[historical boxing society]

I don't think much of Luis Firpo. He's was one of the last "cowboy type" Boxer's who were just crude fundamentally. I don't think he knocked Dempsey down, it looks like a push to me (loose ropes) also contributed.

I see Firpo about even with Bill Brennon/ Johnny Risko range. I'm pretty certain Firpo would split a series fight's with Brennon (there wasn't much separating them). They were both very crude unrefined fighters.

Luis would of been fun in the white Hope era again against Fred Fulton and Carl Morris where he belonged with the other "cowboy types" He would do well in that Era.

Tunney would punish him badly i don't see him going past 10 rounds. Tunney is the exact opposite of a Bill Brennon type he is mechanically very sound, Firpo's face would look like a mess rather rapidly and i Don't see Gene having any trouble evading those sweeping telegraphed swing's of Firpo.


For me personally i'm always skeptical a fighter is "superior" to another fighter just because he has one career victory against him. Such as Firpo & Bill Brennon. In almost every scenario fighter's split multiple fight series. So Firpo's victory over Brennon in no one way convinces me he was the far superior fighter. He may have been...but i don't put as much stock into a single victory as other's might..

[Slugfester]

HBS nails it again. Tunney could've been a template for Ali in the Dempsey fights. Wrong style for Angel. I also concur Dempsey was pushed from the ring

[QueensburyRules]

- - The frustrated Firpo after having previously been down hard, had just gotten off a few of his punches that had Jack reeling, but frustrated Jack ain't down, he did push him as Jack was already stumbling backwards and out of the ring, likely the moment when a couple of sports had fatal heart attacks.

[Willie Pep 229]

- - The frustrated Firpo after having previously been down hard, had just gotten off a few of his punches that had Jack reeling, but frustrated Jack ain't down, he did push him as Jack was already stumbling backwards and out of the ring, likely the moment when a couple of sports had fatal heart attacks.

With the boom in radio sales between 1921 and 1923 it is likely that Dempsey-Firpo was America's first 'water cooler moment' in sport.

For the first time ever a few million people were able to tell their friends where they were and what they were doing when they heard (live) that the champion has been knocked out of the ring.

Before Dempsey-Firpo only the few (live attendees) got to experience the excitment of the moment. Everyone else had to settle for second hand reports: newspapers, film, friends telling their tale.

While it's true that Dempsey-Carpentier was broadcast live, by July 1921 there just wasn't that many radio listeners (and the fight wasn't that exciting).

Dempsey-Firpo was first great moment, marrying sport to mass media. Baseball took notice.

The great change: in the beginning major league sport was afraid to give away their product 'for free.' Even Rickard was scared at first. But once everyone saw that radio broadcasts didn't hurt live attendance but instead could turn an entire city (in Dempsey's case an entire nation) into fans and in turn increased the live gates, everyone followed Rickard's lead and started broadcasting their games.

As it was so often associated media innovation it was prize fighting that took the lead in embracing the new media's first. Film, radio, TV, PPV, all were first proved commercially viable via boxing.

I must admit, sadly, that it looks like it's MMA that has taken the lead on the latest media innovation, live streaming.

[Slugfester]

Younger generation. UFC personnel and fans more tech savvy.

[Willie Pep 229]

Younger generation. UFC personnel and fans more tech savvy.

Yea maybe too much.

My son and his friends; they steal fights regularly. The UFC needs to address this problem. I am certain from looking at my son's extended friends list, they're all stealing it. He has no less than three different friends (locations) where he can watch the fights for free.

Some time back, one night, right in the middle of the UFC presentation (right before the main event) their streaming got scrambled (actually went black) but the little Gen Z bastards jumped on it and had it back up illegaly running by the second round.

I suspect there is an unspoken (but important) war going on between the UFC and Gen Z (amateur) hackers, and the UFC is losing.

[Willow The Wisp]

I don't think much of Luis Firpo. He's was one of the last "cowboy type" Boxer's who were just crude fundamentally. I don't think he knocked Dempsey down, it looks like a push to me (loose ropes) also contributed.

I see Firpo about even with Bill Brennon/ Johnny Risko range. I'm pretty certain Firpo would split a series fight's with Brennon (there wasn't much separating them). They were both very crude unrefined fighters.

Luis would of been fun in the white Hope era again against Fred Fulton and Carl Morris where he belonged with the other "cowboy types" He would do well in that Era.

Tunney would punish him badly i don't see him going past 10 rounds. Tunney is the exact opposite of a Bill Brennon type he is mechanically very sound, Firpo's face would look like a mess rather rapidly and i Don't see Gene having any trouble evading those sweeping telegraphed swing's of Firpo.


For me personally i'm always skeptical a fighter is "superior" to another fighter just because he has one career victory against him. Such as Firpo & Bill Brennon. In almost every scenario fighter's split multiple fight series. So Firpo's victory over Brennon in no one way convinces me he was the far superior fighter. He may have been...but i don't put as much stock into a single victory as other's might..

Good post!
Althought you began the post with "I don't think much of Luis Firpo", I read what I judge to be an appreciation of Firpo, which is appropriate for a man who became one of the best of his era and an absolute legend in his very boxing rich country.
While it is certain that Firpo was "crude"; it is an important point not to miss, that he made that style work for him, as few can manage.

A full appreciation.