Click Bait Threads

[Bronson66]

The bolded: This conclusion is the failsafe and I suspect most of us would adhere to it. We can only know so much.

So is there value in looking at these titles and possibilities? I would say yes. It is similar to baseball, we worship players like Ty Cobb and Honus Wagner... some professional sports came out of collegiate sanctioned "club sports" and others came out of people's need to entertain themselves. Got ice? Got sticks? Do not want to use the sticks to hit each other on the head? lets get a puck and someone who will actually block the goal (No masks back then). Welsh shin kicking might be a good cross polination. Like boxing it was a resolution mechanism, then it eventually became a tournament activity... Meanwhile Football (American) Rugby? started out as civilized club sports, including for college kids with a need to express themselves athletically. A virtual tale of two cities: But the colorful tales and history definitely come from the working class sports.

Point being, it makes sense to look into and try to understand the bare knuckle originals that eventually gave us a foundation. It also is natural to create Eagles out of Pigeons, it is a way on reflecting on how these men eventually gave us so much more. They were as great as they could be and their history has value, so we make them larger than life. Yet today if you go to Hoboken New Jersey and look for the original field, canonized as where the first baseball game was played, it was torn down to make way for a building. The plaque is not even the size of a large board. That is sad.

Your argument about titles is why alot of us appreciate the clean and consistency of the lineal. It tends to get a little crazy trying to figure out what was essentially parochial and how it could claim to be international.

I am certainly no expert on the London Prize Ring,I know even less about it than I do about boxing from the middle 1800's to today.

However, I can read,and when I read contemporary ringside, round by round reports by the most eminent of that era's boxing writer,and those reports directly contradict posts put up here,posts that are portentously described as "my work"as though some great opus is now being revealed to the unwashed masses,I feel obliged to challenge these Decalogue Tablets from Mount Sinai.

" My Name Is Ozymandias, [Glaukos,] King Of Kings

Look At My Works Ye Mighty And Despair"


[Apologies to Percy Bysshe Shelley]

Hoboken to me means the birthplace of the finest interpreter of the," Great American Song Book." Francis Albert Sinatra.

Ty Cobb "The Georgia Peach?"

[billeau2]

I am certainly no expert on the London Prize Ring,I know even less about it than I do about boxing from the middle 1800's to today.

However, I can read,and when I read contemporary ringside round by round reports by the most eminent of that era's boxing writer,and those reports directly contradict posts put up here,posts that are portentously described as "my work"as though some great opus is now being revealed to the unwashed masses,I feel obliged to challenge these Decalogue Tablets from Mount Sinai.

" My Name Is Ozymandias, [Glaukos,] King Of Kings

Look At My Works Ye Mighty And Despair"


[Apologies to Percy Bysshe Shelley]

Hoboken to me means the birthplace of the finest interpreter of the," Great American Song Book." Francis Albert Sinatra.

Ty Cobb "The Georgia Peach?"

Challenge is good, it creates progress. As far as I can tell from a technological perspective anything in boxing up until maybe Sullivan could only be judged according to a fencing like paradigm, combined with conventional street fighting. The gangs of New York movie gave a pretty good account of some stuff used in street fights that was related.

Just do not see anything much until JJ.

Yes, the one and only Georgia peach.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am certainly no expert on the London Prize Ring,I know even less about it than I do about boxing from the middle 1800's to today.

However, I can read,and when I read contemporary ringside round by round reports by the most eminent of that era's boxing writer,and those reports directly contradict posts put up here,posts that are portentously described as "my work"as though some great opus is now being revealed to the unwashed masses,I feel obliged to challenge these Decalogue Tablets from Mount Sinai.

" My Name Is Ozymandias, [Glaukos,] King Of Kings

Look At My Works Ye Mighty And Despair"


[Apologies to Percy Bysshe Shelley]

Hoboken to me means the birthplace of the finest interpreter of the," Great American Song Book." Francis Albert Sinatra.

Ty Cobb "The Georgia Peach?"

Worked for a guy back in the 70s. He grew up in Hoboken. He told me that Sinatra was this skinny kid who use to appear at the neighborhood sporting events and picnics with an amplifier and a microphone and sing the National Anthem.

He was already a local celebrity in his very early teens. Worked hard to get where he ended up.

[Willie Pep 229]

I am certainly no expert on the London Prize Ring,I know even less about it than I do about boxing from the middle 1800's to today.

However, I can read,and when I read contemporary ringside round by round reports by the most eminent of that era's boxing writer,and those reports directly contradict posts put up here,posts that are portentously described as "my work"as though some great opus is now being revealed to the unwashed masses,I feel obliged to challenge these Decalogue Tablets from Mount Sinai.

" My Name Is Ozymandias, [Glaukos,] King Of Kings

Look At My Works Ye Mighty And Despair"


[Apologies to Percy Bysshe Shelley]

Hoboken to me means the birthplace of the finest interpreter of the," Great American Song Book." Francis Albert Sinatra.

Ty Cobb "The Georgia Peach?"

More trivia you might already know.

Sinatra used to do his national anthem thing at the local prize fights. Sometimes singing tunes between bouts. Hoboken had multi venues.

Frank may have been drawn there because his father had a short career (6-9-0) as a fighter in the 1920s.

Antonino Martino Sinatra fought under the name "Marty O'Brien."

Another classic Ellis Island NY/NJ "Irishman" out of Sicily.

[billeau2]

More trivia you might already know.

Sinatra used to do his national anthem thing at the local prize fights. Sometimes singing tunes between bouts. Hoboken had multi venues.

Frank may have been drawn there because his father had a short career (6-9-0) as a fighter in the 1920s.

Antonino Martino Sinatra fought under the name "Marty O'Brien."

Another classic Ellis Island NY/NJ "Irishman" out of Sicily.

I heard on national public radio that Lord Byron had a pet bear in university because they did not allow dogs.

[billeau2]

Worked for a guy back in the 70s. He grew up in Hoboken. He told me that Sinatra was this skinny kid who use to appear at the neighborhood sporting events and picnics with an amplifier and a microphone and sing the National Anthem.

He was already a local celebrity in his very early teens. Worked hard to get where he ended up.

When I was a kid My old man used to take walks with me and we decided to take the tubes from New York over to Hoboken. This was the 1970s. There was one really nice seafood restaurant and we had a nice lunch there was literally nothing else there. We brought our baseball stuff to have a catch thinking we might actually find the original baseball field where baseball started they had torn it down. What a place to grow up!

[Bronson66]

Challenge is good, it creates progress. As far as I can tell from a technological perspective anything in boxing up until maybe Sullivan could only be judged according to a fencing like paradigm, combined with conventional street fighting. The gangs of New York movie gave a pretty good account of some stuff used in street fights that was related.

Just do not see anything much until JJ.

Yes, the one and only Georgia peach.

"We now come to the doings of Champions of later date,and foremost on the list in every respect,stands the late John Jackson,who,by his universal good conduct,whether in or out of the fistic circle,earned for himself,the well - deserved cognomen,of " Gentleman Jackson".
He only made three appearance in the PR,his last being that with Dan Mendoza in 1795;
but his tremendous strength and extraordinary scientific acquirements were such ,that none of the aspirants of the day appeared at all anxious to question his right to the Championship,and he was left in peacable enjoyment of the title until he retired and allowed his title to descend on Jem Belcher.
Mr Jackson ,who died in October,1845 at the advanced age of 77 was,for many years after his retirement from public life,in the enjoyment of the friendship ,and esteem,of many of the highest in the land,and he possessed an income that enabled him to live in the greatest comfort,and to render him independent in every sense of the word.

In height he was about 5ft 11 1/2",and his weight was 14 stone, [196lbs,] almost the whole of it was good substantial muscle and sinew."
"Boxiana " Pierce Egan,,

NB the idiosyncratic punctuation is Egan's not mine.

[billeau2]

"We now come to the doings of Champions of later date,and foremost on the list in every respect,stands the late John Jackson,who,by his universal good conduct,whether in or out of the fistic circle,earned for himself,the well - deserved cognomen,of " Gentleman Jackson".
He only made three appearance in the PR,his last being that with Dan Mendoza in 1795;
but his tremendous strength and extraordinary scientific acquirements were such ,that none of the aspirants of the day appeared at all anxious to question his right to the Championship,and he was left in peacable enjoyment of the title until he retired and allowed his title to descend on Jem Belcher.
Mr Jackson ,who died in October,1845 at the advanced age of 77 was,for many years after his retirement from public life,in the enjoyment of the friendship ,and esteem,of many of the highest in the land,and he possessed an income that enabled him to live in the greatest comfort,and to render him independent in every sense of the word.

In height he was about 5ft 11 1/2",and his weight was 14 stone, [196lbs,] almost the whole of it was good substantial muscle and sinew."
"Boxiana " Pierce Egan,,

NB the idiosyncratic punctuation is Egan's not mine.

Punctuation and spelling are alas relative to the era. H.L Mencken wrote a tome on Dialects, and how spelling changed accordingly when he traced the English language over to the New World. One never sees a semi colon these days. And when German was considered a high standard for a scholarly language sentences were written long deliberately. Now people like short sentences... Its all good to me, as long as the writing is quality.

[Bronson66]

Punctuation and spelling are alas relative to the era. H.L Mencken wrote a tome on Dialects, and how spelling changed accordingly when he traced the English language over to the New World. One never sees a semi colon these days. And when German was considered a high standard for a scholarly language sentences were written long deliberately. Now people like short sentences... Its all good to me, as long as the writing is quality.

I believe Egan is the "man to go to ,"when trying to inform yourself about this period of pugilism,the fact that his reports directly contradict our self appointed expert on this era means that he must now dismiss him,whereas prior to these recent threads, he held him in great esteem!
Blatant hypocrisy.

[billeau2]

I believe Egan is the "man to go to ,"when trying to inform yourself about this period of pugilism,the fact that his reports directly contradict our self appointed expert on this era means that he must now dismiss him,whereas prior to these recent threads, he held him in great esteem!
Blatant hypocrisy.

I always like to look at what we can with an eye for our own prejudices because often enough it is not the source, but us who can be in error. Plato was considered a historian. A lot of what he wrote not concerning Socrates was historical. He very matter of factly stated that Atlantis had existed according to the account of Egyptian Priests who were considered "historians" by the Greeks. By virtue of this statement modern historians often stutter, then gaslight Plato's efforts. "Ohh he is speaking alligorically," "he is using ideas fantastically to appeal," and on it goes... Do I think Atlantis existed? I truly have no idea! But I would never discount Plato.

The truth? It gets very complicated...Plato gave one account of Socrates' trial that differed immensly from Xenophon, another Greek historian. Xenophon portray66ed Socrates as a bumbling fool that was not the equal of the Sophists he faced down, Plato in "The Apology" made Socrates a here, a Matryre. Who was right? and what does it say about Plato and history?

Which is only to point out that any source by itself is only so good. I am glad we have Egan, I am glad we had London, who was again a contradiction! A Socialist animal lover, a bitter racist....