Larry Holmes and Wladimir Klitschko. Titlereign comparison.

[BattlingNelson]

It's a common assumtion that the heavies of today are the worst crop ever. Outside the K-bros the contenders are terrible. Of course it's a subjective reasoning.

My feeling is that the era of Joe Louis and more recently Larry Holmes also had a pretty weak cast.

This thread will show a strenght comparison between the (alphabet) titlereigns of Larry Holmes and Wlad Klitschko.

For the sake of this thread I will only measure Larry Holmes 'first' career and deal with Wlad's as if he retired today.


Record in titlefights:

Wlad: 16-2 (14 KO's)
Holmes: 20-3 (14 KO's)



Strenght of schedule (Ring magazine ranking of opponent):

U = Outside top 10.

RED = Loss

Wlad: 10, U, U, U, U, 9, U, U, 1, 7, U, 7, 6, 8, U, 3, 4, U

Holmes: 3, 8, 10, 4, 5, 7, 6, 10, U, 7, 8, 11, 3, 10, 0, 10, 4, 9, U, 1, 1.


Notable opponents not fought:

Wlad: Vitali Klitschko, David Haye, Lennox Lewis.

Holmes: Mike Weaver II, Micheal Dokes, Pinklon Thomas.

[Quarry]

Going by your theory then Wlad Klitschko is fighting no-bodies and his title reign is the worst in all boxing history.

[BattlingNelson]

Going by your theory then Wlad Klitschko is fighting no-bodies and his title reign is the worst in all boxing history.

That is not a possible conclusion at all.

[-CANE-]

It's a common assumtion that the heavies of today are the worst crop ever. Outside the K-bros the contenders are terrible. Of course it's a subjective reasoning.

My feeling is that the era of Joe Louis and more recently Larry Holmes also had a pretty weak cast.

This thread will show a strenght comparison between the (alphabet) titlereigns of Larry Holmes and Wlad Klitschko.

For the sake of this thread I will only measure Larry Holmes 'first' career and deal with Wlad's as if he retired today.


Record in titlefights:

Wlad: 16-2 (14 KO's)
Holmes: 20-3 (14 KO's)



Strenght of schedule (Ring magazine ranking of opponent):

U = Outside top 10.

RED = Loss

Wlad: 10, U, U, U, U, 9, U, U, 1, 7, U, 7, 6, 8, U, 3, 4, U

Holmes: 3, 8, 10, 4, 5, 7, 6, 10, U, 7, 8, 11, 3, 10, 0, 10, 4, 9, U, 1, 1.


Notable opponents not fought:

Wlad: Vitali Klitschko, David Haye, Lennox Lewis.

Holmes: Mike Weaver II, Micheal Dokes, Pinklon Thomas.

I rate Holmes very high and you have to because of his title fight record, same with Wlad.

I have 4 heavyweights I rate a level above the rest and that's Ali,Louis,Holmes and Lewis. And on accomplishments Wlad joins these other greats that pretty much dominated their eras.

Tyson dominated his era which I also consider weak compared to some others, but he never really came back as a better fighter or with a career defining performance after being beaten.

Wlad and Lennox and Holyfield all did this, Tyson couldn't. They all rank above Tyson for me.

It's a shame that Wlad will never get to fight the only heavyweight out there that he needs on his resume.

I don't like Wlad one bit, I admire and respect him and he will go down as one of the greats. And he would be a difficult matchup for anyone.

[sonnyboyx2]

It's a common assumtion that the heavies of today are the worst crop ever. Outside the K-bros the contenders are terrible. Of course it's a subjective reasoning.

My feeling is that the era of Joe Louis and more recently Larry Holmes also had a pretty weak cast.

This thread will show a strenght comparison between the (alphabet) titlereigns of Larry Holmes and Wlad Klitschko.

For the sake of this thread I will only measure Larry Holmes 'first' career and deal with Wlad's as if he retired today.


Record in titlefights:

Wlad: 16-2 (14 KO's)
Holmes: 20-3 (14 KO's)



Strenght of schedule (Ring magazine ranking of opponent):

U = Outside top 10.

RED = Loss

Wlad: 10, U, U, U, U, 9, U, U, 1, 7, U, 7, 6, 8, U, 3, 4, U

Holmes: 3, 8, 10, 4, 5, 7, 6, 10, U, 7, 8, 11, 3, 10, 0, 10, 4, 9, U, 1, 1.


Notable opponents not fought:

Wlad: Vitali Klitschko, David Haye, Lennox Lewis.

Holmes: Mike Weaver II, Micheal Dokes, Pinklon Thomas.

Bat.. has Wlad fought 9 unranked opponents in title fights compared to Holmes fighting 2 unranked opponents ?

[BattlingNelson]

I rate Holmes very high and you have to because of his title fight record, same with Wlad.

I have 4 heavyweights I rate a level above the rest and that's Ali,Louis,Holmes and Lewis. And on accomplishments Wlad joins these other greats that pretty much dominated their eras.

Tyson dominated his era which I also consider weak compared to some others, but he never really came back as a better fighter or with a career defining performance after being beaten.

Wlad and Lennox and Holyfield all did this, Tyson couldn't. They all rank above Tyson for me.

It's a shame that Wlad will never get to fight the only heavyweight out there that he needs on his resume.

I don't like Wlad one bit, I admire and respect him and he will go down as one of the greats. And he would be a difficult matchup for anyone.

You are right that in fantasy-match-ups Wlad would perform better than in terms of resume. I also find that Wlad has done a good job and alone the fact that it's not laughable to make a comparison to an ATG like Holmes as I did kinda speaks for itself.

Still I am somewhat surprised in the number of defenses Wlad has made against contenders outside the top 10. I reckon the fights in the next couple of years enhances his legacy a great deal.

[BattlingNelson]

Bat.. has Wlad fought 9 unranked opponents in title fights compared to Holmes fighting 2 unranked opponents ?

As far as I can tell yes. The reason is that Wlad has been champion in an era with multiple alphabet titles and Wlad was champ in one of the weaker (WBO). WBO has apparently approved of challengers outside The Ring top 10.

As stated above his reign in recent years and likely the years to come, will contain a larger number of top ranked fighters.

Let me add that I've only taken titlefights. Wlad has fought ranked fighters in nontitlefights and Holmes has fought unranked fighters in non-title fights during his reign.

[Die Antwoord]

It's a common assumtion that the heavies of today are the worst crop ever. Outside the K-bros the contenders are terrible. Of course it's a subjective reasoning.

My feeling is that the era of Joe Louis and more recently Larry Holmes also had a pretty weak cast.

This thread will show a strenght comparison between the (alphabet) titlereigns of Larry Holmes and Wlad Klitschko.

For the sake of this thread I will only measure Larry Holmes 'first' career and deal with Wlad's as if he retired today.


Record in titlefights:

Wlad: 16-2 (14 KO's)
Holmes: 20-3 (14 KO's)



Strenght of schedule (Ring magazine ranking of opponent):

U = Outside top 10.

RED = Loss

Wlad: 10, U, U, U, U, 9, U, U, 1, 7, U, 7, 6, 8, U, 3, 4, U

Holmes: 3, 8, 10, 4, 5, 7, 6, 10, U, 7, 8, 11, 3, 10, 0, 10, 4, 9, U, 1, 1.


Notable opponents not fought:

Wlad: Vitali Klitschko, David Haye, Lennox Lewis.

Holmes: Mike Weaver II, Micheal Dokes, Pinklon Thomas.

Wait, Wlad's notable opponents not fought includes Lewis? When was he supposed to do that? The only opponents Lewis fought after Wlad became a HW champ was a Rahman rematch,Tyson and Vitali...how was Wlad supposed to fight him. They were different eras. I suppose Holmes also failed to fight George Foreman and Joe frazier as well since both were fighting when Holmes had a title.

He also didnt fight, Young (who wasnt good, but people on here said he'd beat a Klitschko), Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner, etc....

Youre going to hold it against Wlad that he didnt fight a guy whose last HW fight was in june of 2003 when Wlad's significant reign and the most dominant reign of all time began in 2005?). Also hes not going to fight his brother, and he has tried to fight David haye and even signed a contract with him. Oh and he's still no where close to done. Wlad has a good 4 more years left in him and at his current pace thats about 11 more KO wins against top guys.

Also the ring top 10 HWs is just one ranking, the real issue is that the top 30 hw's dont fight eachother. How do you know Tomasz Adamek is better than Sam Peter or Chagaev? I dont know that, you dont know that, hell I think Chagaev would beat Adamek and haye. Even an old Rahman I think could beat quite a few people in the top 10 and I would have ranked above Solis. Wlad fought Rahman to shut the fans up, that was the only reason he did it, a lot of people did that, Berbick and leon spinks were ranked by ring, but those dudes were terrible, but it was the same thing, holmes fought them to help assert a legacy.

What this just shows is how boxing is now a global sport and not strictly an American one. It shows how boxing today is much better than it has ever been because you have fighters represented from all across the world.

Wlad-Ukraine
Vitali Ukraine
Haye-England
Adamek-Poland
Povetkin-Russia
Arreola-Mexico/US
Chambers-US
Solis-Cuba
Chagaev-Uzbek
Thompson-American
Peter-Nigeria
Tua-Samoa

Its a global sport now, there really wasnt a world heavyweight champion till recently, its like the yankees being the "world" series champion or Lakers being "world" champions. They were all pretty much the western world champion. Now its a global sport, its harder to rank guys when they all arent fighting the same guys over and over in the same places.

[Tiozzo]

Wait, Wlad's notable opponents not fought includes Lewis? When was he supposed to do that? The only opponents Lewis fought after Wlad became a HW champ was a Rahman rematch,Tyson and Vitali...how was Wlad supposed to fight him. They were different eras. I suppose Holmes also failed to fight George Foreman and Joe frazier as well since both were fighting when Holmes had a title.

He also didnt fight, Young (who wasnt good, but people on here said he'd beat a Klitschko), Ron Lyle, Joe Bugner, etc....

Youre going to hold it against Wlad that he didnt fight a guy whose last HW fight was in june of 2003 when Wlad's significant reign and the most dominant reign of all time began in 2005?). Also hes not going to fight his brother, and he has tried to fight David haye and even signed a contract with him. Oh and he's still no where close to done. Wlad has a good 4 more years left in him and at his current pace thats about 11 more KO wins against top guys.

Also the ring top 10 HWs is just one ranking, the real issue is that the top 30 hw's dont fight eachother. How do you know Tomasz Adamek is better than Sam Peter or Chagaev? I dont know that, you dont know that, hell I think Chagaev would beat Adamek and haye. Even an old Rahman I think could beat quite a few people in the top 10 and I would have ranked above Solis. Wlad fought Rahman to shut the fans up, that was the only reason he did it, a lot of people did that, Berbick and leon spinks were ranked by ring, but those dudes were terrible, but it was the same thing, holmes fought them to help assert a legacy.

What this just shows is how boxing is now a global sport and not strictly an American one. It shows how boxing today is much better than it has ever been because you have fighters represented from all across the world.

Wlad-Ukraine
Vitali Ukraine
Haye-England
Adamek-Poland
Povetkin-Russia
Arreola-Mexico/US
Chambers-US
Solis-Cuba
Chagaev-Uzbek
Thompson-American
Peter-Nigeria
Tua-Samoa

Its a global sport now, there really wasnt a world heavyweight champion till recently, its like the yankees being the "world" series champion or Lakers being "world" champions. They were all pretty much the western world champion. Now its a global sport, its harder to rank guys when they all arent fighting the same guys over and over in the same places.

Lewis vs Wlad is a fight that could have happened even though Lewis was at the very end of his career when Wlad was ''ready'' to fight him. So it is a legitimate ''missed'' fight.

[Tiozzo]

Going by your theory then Wlad Klitschko is fighting no-bodies and his title reign is the worst in all boxing history.

That is not a possible conclusion at all.

what else is ?

we can see that Holmes has had a better overall opposition during his title reign, and since the reign of Holmes is considered to be among the most weak (next to Marciano), then what kind of conclusion will you get ?

but actually, I'm surprised that there aren't more top 10 ranked challengers on Wlad's record, although I knew Holmes had the better title fights record looking at the guys they beat