Most skilled defensive boxers

[Sugar Adam Ali]

The reason I rate toney so highly is how much weight he went thru,, fighting guys like mccallum n nunn at 160 and then 15 years later fighting 220 lbs guys or bigger... That is truly amazing feat,,, adding on 60-80 lbs and being competitive with top heavy guys.. Hopkins couldn't probably do that, and I don't think Floyd could be fat and out of shape at 168 or 175 giving hell to guys like Chavez jr, groves, kovolev, etc...
That is why I rate toney so highly,,, his rise in weight in amazing

[MDPopescu]

Mayweather never faced the punchers that Toney did guys, least not later, counter punching excellent Mayweather.... cept for Cotto who did tag him a whittle bit! Michael Nun was exceptional in every regard. Toney rolled his shots which is why he was able to get to him late. And Toney countered punchers in a division where one screvv up and it was lights out.

... Rather say: "that Ali did"...

[soul_survivor]

Ali get's the Roy Jones treatment.

Both are different level athletes who's natural talent are out of his world.

Neither of them barely got touched in their primes but because their technical abilities aren't as "Sound" per say, as say, Pernell Whitaker for example, they aren't considered good defensively.

Especially when the began to slow down they got hit a lot more.

Because the idea is Ali or Jones didn't fight the "right" way, or the way your'e "Supposed to fight" or "By the book". If you follow me.

But really what is the "right" way to fight? Surely the effective way is the right way?

Either way, it's an argument I've had time and time over.

Roy Jones barely got touched in his prime. Surely that's what defense is about? Being able to avoid punches.

Both Jones (Prime) and Ali (Prime) were close to untouchable. They didn't fight conventionally and had a lot of technical holes at times and broke most of the rules and did the "You shouldn't do that" things like put their hands down, leap in with shots etc but their ability and talent allowed them to get away with it.

There's guys like Harold Johnson who's one the best technical fighters I've seen who does absolute everything by the book and whilst having a very good defense he got hit a lot more than Ali and Roy Jones did. So who's better defensively? The one doing the "right" things or the one getting hit less? The one getting hit less surely.

I couldn't have put it better myself.

I can understand when people say, from a strictly "textbook" point of view, that certain fighters like Whitaker or Floyd or Toney, were better defensively. But then how can they at the same time list Pep up there, the more footage I see of the guy, the more he seems to drop his hands, invite his opponents in and then lean out of the way of punches. He didn't lean straight back as often as a young Ali (Pep preferred swaying side to side) but hands down, chin out is still pretty unorthodox.

But like I said, Whitaker and Pep have got to be the best, purely based on defensive...ever.

[billeau2]

... Rather say: "that Ali did"...

If I read you correctly you want to make the point that Ali faced some sluggers, more than Mayweather. Certainly true....I think of it this way actually. Floyd was always incredible defensively but later in his career he started really counter punching guys and in that time he has not faced any real punchers cept maybe mosley. How convenient!

[joseph5620]

If I read you correctly you want to make the point that Ali faced some sluggers, more than Mayweather. Certainly true....I think of it this way actually. Floyd was always incredible defensively but later in his career he started really counter punching guys and in that time he has not faced any real punchers cept maybe mosley. How convenient!

He just faced Saul Alvarez. Canelo can punch.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He just faced Saul Alvarez. Canelo can punch.

I think canelo's punching power is greatly overrated,,, who has he ever blown out with his power,, only an undersized lopez,,,

Gomez, trout, hatton, rhodes, old shane, all could withstand the power,,,

Grant it, he has enough power to hurt floyd if he ever connected flush, and he did score a kd of trout, but overall i think his power is more myth than anything,,, i think vargas, oscar, tito, even shane hit harder at 154,, so did norris,,,

[billeau2]

I think canelo's punching power is greatly overrated,,, who has he ever blown out with his power,, only an undersized lopez,,,

Gomez, trout, hatton, rhodes, old shane, all could withstand the power,,,

Grant it, he has enough power to hurt floyd if he ever connected flush, and he did score a kd of trout, but overall i think his power is more myth than anything,,, i think vargas, oscar, tito, even shane hit harder at 154,, so did norris,,,

Thats my feeling about it....But Joseph is right in my case because I should have qualified my opinion. I actually forgot about Alvarez because he was quite forgettable and so easy to counter.

[billeau2]

He just faced Saul Alvarez. Canelo can punch.

I don't think this green kid is much of a puncher....but you are right I should have mentioned alvarez.

[Scott9945]

I think canelo's punching power is greatly overrated,,, who has he ever blown out with his power,, only an undersized lopez,,,

Gomez, trout, hatton, rhodes, old shane, all could withstand the power,,,

Grant it, he has enough power to hurt floyd if he ever connected flush, and he did score a kd of trout, but overall i think his power is more myth than anything,,, i think vargas, oscar, tito, even shane hit harder at 154,, so did norris,,,

He KO'd the usually sturdy Baldomir with one punch.

[Sugar Adam Ali]

He KO'd the usually sturdy Baldomir with one punch.

True, but baldomir was totally shot by then,,, dont let that one fight fool you, if he was a huge puncher he would have smoked rhodes, hatton, etc..
Just imagine fernado vargas or oscar or tito at 154 fighting hatton, rhodes, etc