Johnson, McVey, Wills, Jeannette...The Simple Proof of How Great They Were.

[travestyny]

Who else ducked Langford? I imagine spanning the weights he did Langford would have been happy to fight a MW for a MW title or LHW for a LHW title. I don't know of any stories where he actually did though. Everyone focuses on HW Langford and JJ ducking him. I didn't even realize Langford-Dempsey was ever a discussion.



Was there ever Grebb-Langford talks?

That's a good one. Never heard of any Grebb-Langford talk. I know they fought on the same card in 1918. But by that time Langford was weighing in the 190's I think. Greb seemed to be around 165 or so.

I think Langford was mainly interested in Ketchel, Johnson, and the other white hopes. Probably since at least 1909. Apparently Greb debuted in 1913. I guess the timing never quite worked out...?

Dempsey was offered Langford at least twice I suppose. Once when he was younger, I think soon after fighting John Lester Johnson (who might have put him off of fighting black dudes ever again), and then later when Sam was apparently pretty much blind. Apparently Dempsey's management told Sam they were looking for someone easier. I believe that's the story Bert Sugar told.

[Dr. Z]

Dempsey avoided lots of guys, including Harry Greb.

McVey, and Jeanette were good fighters, see their record omitting Langford when they were i their prime years, 1908-1914. I think Jeannette is very under rated. He had skills, was very tough, and and the stamina to fight all night. McVey to me is limited slugger a left hook only type.

Langford is a special fighter who looks very good on film. Even an an older shop worn man he got the better of Wills early. He also Ko'd Godfrey in 1 round. Highly avoided by Johnson and turned down by Dempsey when he was clearly past it.

[travestyny]

Dempsey avoided lots of guys, including Harry Greb.

McVey, and Jeanette were good fighters, see their record omitting Langford when they were i their prime years, 1908-1914. I think Jeanette is very under rated. He had skills, was very tough, and hd th stamina to fight all night. McVey to me is limited slugger a left hook only type.

Langford is a special fighter who looks very good on film. Even an an older shop worn man he got the better of Wills early. He also Ko'd Godfrey in 1 round. Highly avoided by Johnson and turned down by Dempsey when he was clearly past it.

You feeling like answering questions today, Dr. Z , or are you going to keep avoiding as is your usual M.O.?


Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Sam Langford THREE times and had the fight not come off due to causes out of his control? THREE times he said lets go, twice Langford dropped the ball and once the promoter pulled the fight. Is this correct or nah?

[joseph5620]

Actually, isn't he a Marchegiano hater, too? Don't tell me has some, "Dempsey is the king of the Whites!" shlt going on. lmao.

The dude clearly has some issues that led us to label him "Black Dempsey." Everyone seems to show their true colors when they post in the lounge, and it explains more about posts you see scattered around otherwise. Makes it crystal clear why he creates some of the threads he does and tells lies in the history section.


Case in point. I see he wrote this in his thread:




My president? Let me guess. By "my president" he means *****? I didn't vote for *****, nor did I even live in the country the entire time ***** was president and couldn't care less about American politics during the time. So what the hell is that all about? The poor Stan lives in a perpetual race war in his head. It's sad.

LMAO!!! The truth.

[Dr. Z]

You feeling like answering questions today, Dr. Z , or are you going to keep avoiding as is your usual M.O.?


Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Sam Langford THREE times and had the fight not come off due to causes out of his control? THREE times he said lets go, twice Langford dropped the ball and once the promoter pulled the fight. Is this correct or nah?

No. I told you I'll reach out to the author of the Langford book, who has proof of the signed contract by Johnson to fight Langford in March. All you do is say show me photo. You defend Johnson like a political symbol. I do not understand why. He lies, fouls, and cheats, as well as beats on people outside the ring, but it matters not for you.

Langford's manager Joe Woodman tried his best to make that fight. Johnson ran from it. If you want to take Sam's word, he was in his 140's for Johnson and floored him in their lone fight.

Your MO is that all of these offers were bad for Johnson is joke. He did not fight the best competition as champion, and it wasn't all the color line either as he was saved from a KO in the final round of a ten round match vs Battling Jim Johnson and surely could have fought Langford, or Jeannette in France for more money.

[travestyny]

No. I told you I'll reach out to the author of the Langford book, who has proof of the signed contract by Johnson to fight Langford in March. All you do is say show me photo. You defend Johnson like a political symbol. I do not understand why. He lies, fouls, and cheats, as well as beats on people outside the ring, but it matters not for you.

Langford's manager Joe Woodman tried his best to make that fight. Johnson ran from it. If you want to take Sam's word, he was in his 140's for Johnson and floored him in their lone fight.

Your MO is that all of these offers were bad for Johnson is joke. He did not fight the best competition as champion, and it wasn't all the color line either as he was saved from a KO in the final round of a ten round match vs Battling Jim Johnson and surely could have fought Langford, or Jeannette in France for more money.

Hey, that's not what I asked. All I asked was whether Jack Johnson agreed to fight Langford three times, and had the fight not happen from no fault of his own all three times. Twice Langford dropped the ball, and once the promoter pulled the fight. Is that accurate? We already know that he agreed to fight Joe Jeannette in New York City and the fight was pulled by the NY Commission. Simply put, you're wrong.

You just keep avoiding questions. I'm sorry that you want me to believe what you say when you provide no proof of it. I'm not a sheep. The only thing I've ever asked you to do was to prove what you say, and you haven't been able to do that.

By the way, Langford is quoted around 1919 saying that Jack Johnson in his prime was never knocked down for the count. Sounds like an admission that the knockdown story was bogus.

[Dr. Z]

@travestyny

I think you are confused. I'm talking about the signed contract for the 1909 fight which Johnson backed out of. Your'e cornered and I said I'd try to recruit the author of the Langford book to clean this up in March.

There were numerous offers for Johnson to fight Langford, some of which from known promoters in the press. Far more than three, and my point is Johnson did not take any one of them. FACT. He skirted some which would have made him more money for sure, unless you think the purses or Jim Johnson, and Frank Moran were better I'll save you time, there were not at least in Moran case and IMO Langford draws much better than Battling Jim. You can speak up on that point if you wish.

Maybe in some cases the money dried up as Johnson did not act soon enough, but not all of them. Trying to make a point that in some cases where he was tardy is not absolving him from blame. That is what you are trying to do. Remember the French stripped Jack of his title for not fighting Jeannette or Langford. FACT. Are you telling me they could not make that fight? Seriously.

If you want to research Langford is quoted saying he did knock Johnson down in the USA press, and the French press also reported on it. Since their lone encounter when Langford says he was 140 pounds ( an estimated to be 20 years old ) is not on film, it's hard to verify. What's for sure is Johnson never fought him again.

Clear now? And while your reading you can tell me Johnson's three best wins over near prime or prime opponents? Why are you scared of this one? 4x time asking. I'll spot you the 5'7" 1/2 168 pound Tommy Burns, and there is a side story to this fight as Burns probably was not 100% if you want to know

To get the side story, you'll have to answer this question. It could be new ground for you.

-Dr Z.

[travestyny]

Come on man. I stopped reading right here.

@travestyny

I think you are confused. I'm talking about the signed contract for the 1909 fight which Johnson backed out of. Your'e cornered and I said I'd try to recruit the author of the Langford book to clean this up in March.

No, I think YOU are confused. We've gone over this a number of times and you've failed. There was never shown any contract for the May 1909 fight. What they showed was information about a February fight that was scrapped. If Clay, or anyone, had the contract for May, it would have surfaced already. So when you come back with nothing, what will you say?

There were numerous offers for Johnson to fight Langford, some of which from known promoters in the press. Far more than three, and my point is Johnson did not take any one of them. FACT.

That is false.


Did Jack Johnson agree to fight Langford THREE times. Yes or no? It's time for you to answer some questions and stop ducking.



--Edit--

Read the rest of your BS. For Fvvcks sake, man. Learn how to read. I have answered your question at least 3 times now. Maybe if you read instead of spouting off your own little rhetoric you would have seen my answer THREE times now. You are the only one here who ducks questions CONSISTENTLY. And COWARDLY. Now do you want to answer my question above? If you disagree with it, I've got a certain few pages from your boy, Clay Moyle, that you would just love

You can feel free to tell me how Johnson waited for money to dry up when during one negotiation Langford and Woodman agreed that they would post $20,000 within a day, Johnson said he would wait days for them to do so, and they never put it up. According to your boy, Clay. Let me guess. Johnson is responsible for Langford and manager lying about their willingness or ability to post money for the fight? Yea. If I were JJ, I'd just pass up $30,000 offers and wait for them to get their money right, too. lol

[Dr. Z]

@travestyny

I think you are confused. I'm talking about the signed contract for the 1909 fight which Johnson backed out of. Your'e cornered and I said I'd try to recruit the author of the Langford book to clean this up in March.

There were numerous offers for Johnson to fight Langford, some of which from known promoters in the press. Far more than three, and my point is Johnson did not take any one of them. FACT. He skirted some which would have made him more money for sure, unless you think the purses or Jim Johnson, and Frank Moran were better I'll save you time, there were not at least in Moran case and IMO Langford draws much better than Battling Jim. You can speak up on that point if you wish.

Maybe in some cases the money dried up as Johnson did not act soon enough, but not all of them. Trying to make a point that in some cases where he was tardy is not absolving him from blame. That is what you are trying to do. Remember the French stripped Jack of his title for not fighting Jeannette or Langford. FACT. Are you telling me they could not make that fight? Seriously.

If you want to research Langford is quoted saying he did knock Johnson down in the USA press, and the French press also reported on it. Since their lone encounter when Langford says he was 140 pounds ( an estimated to be 20 years old ) is not on film, it's hard to verify. What's for sure is Johnson never fought him again.

Clear now? And while your reading you can tell me Johnson's three best wins over near prime or prime opponents? Why are you scared of this one? 4x time asking. I'll spot you the 5'7" 1/2 168 pound Tommy Burns, and there is a side story to this fight as Burns probably was not 100% if you want to know

To get the side story, you'll have to answer this question. It could be new ground for you.

-Dr Z.

@travestyny

"Johnson admitted that he had no wish to face Langford again. “I don’t want to fight that little smoke,” said Johnson. “He’s got a chance to win against anyone in the world. I’m the first black champion and I’m going to be the last.”

" Two and a half years later, Johnson won the heavyweight championship by defeating Tommy Burns. Over the ensuing years, Langford and his manager, Joe Woodman, hounded Johnson in futile pursuit of an opportunity to fight for the title. '"



Just a reason why from Johnson himself on why he never fought Langford again. Now can you reply back to my questions for one, or are you busy practicing the art of the duck?

Like I said before, I'll let the author speak here, and if he does you will be buried.

[Dr. Z]

More on Johnson avoiding Langford:

"Sam not only would have been trying to help his friends who had bet on him not being knocked out by Johnson in that fight win money but he and Johnson reportedly had a $500 side bet on that which Sam said he won as a result of Johnson's failure to knock him out.

Woodman clearly expected Johnson to return to London to fight Sam after his title contest with Burns, win or lose. They'd agreed to fight at the National Athletic Club prior to Johnson's fight with Burns and the contest was postponed once the opportunity arose for Johnson to fight Burns in Australia. All the research I did on this subject pointed to the fact that Langford and Woodman wanted that fight against Johnson in London and expected that it would take place based on Johnson's agreement with the National Sporting Club. "

- Author and historian of the book; Sam Langford: Boxing's Greatest Uncrowned Champion

^^^ I expect travestyny to turn a blind eye to these facts.