Felix Trinidad vTommy Hearns At Light Middle?

[mrbig1]

Winky exposed him on that score.

If there was ever an underrated fighter, it would be Winky.

[joseph5620]

It was Leonard vs Hearns 1 that we found out about Hearns questionable chin.Hagler went after Hearns from the get go & never stopped,he just over whelmed him.I saw a good 26 of Haglers fights & only saw him hurt once & that was very early in round 1 against Hearns & that says a lot.Not once was he hurt against John (the beast) Magabi 26 0 0 26ko.Hearns actually broke his right hand in the first round against Hagler,although i do not think it would have matter as Hagler started to warm up he started walking through Hearns punches.

That 5th round left hook from Leonard tells everything we need to know about Hearns chin. Also, Hearns didn't recover well after getting hurt. I don't think he had a glass jaw but his recovery from getting hurr was not good. James Kinchen had him badly hurt too.


With that said, Hearns stops Trinidad. His boxing skills were far better.

[joseph5620]

There is good reasoning behind that thinking.I think Las Vagas did lean towards favouring Oscar a little bit.Lets not knock Oscar to much atleast he fought the best of his era Trinidad-Quartey-Mosely-Hopkins-Vargas etc.With the exception of Hopkins (who defied old age) everyone else was in their prime unlike some boxers not to mention (Floyd) who only fought big named boxers when they are close to collecting old age pension.

I don't believe Quartey was in his prime. He hadn't fought in 2 years and he looked vunerable in his previous fight. Delahoya also forced them to postpone the original date for the fight.


I don't believe Vargas was in his prime either because he was never the same after the Trinidad fight.


As far as Mayweather is concerned, Corrales, Hatton, Jose Luis Castillo, Judah, and Canelo were all in their primes or close to it. So your statement is not factual. In many cases Mayweather was the older fighter including against Pacquiao.

[cyril layman]

I don't believe Quartey was in his prime. He hadn't fought in 2 years and he looked vunerable in his previous fight. Delahoya also forced them to postpone the original date for the fight.


I don't believe Vargas was in his prime either because he was never the same after the Trinidad fight.


As far as Mayweather is concerned, Corrales, Hatton, Jose Luis Castillo, Judah, and Canelo were all in their primes or close to it. So your statement is not factual. In many cases Mayweather was the older fighter including against Pacquiao.

Corrales was looking at a 2 year prison sentence for assaulting his girl friend right after the fight.Castillo was 29 when he first fought Mayweather & had over 50 fights under him & most believe he won their first fight & copy box numbers support this.This is what happens when 2 of the 3 judges are from 3rd world Countries.Castillo landed 203 punches to Floyd's 157 punches.Castillo landed 40% of his punches to Floyds 35%.Castillo was coming forward 90% of the fight.Floyd was given a gift decision.Hatton the man Pacquaio Knocked cold with one punch that Hatton. Floyd fights Brawlers & some of them good fighters but if you will notice he stays aways from boxers who have quick reflexes like Mosley,Oscar & Pacquaio.Sure he eventually fought all 3 & won,Mosley 39 Oscar 35 & Pacquaio 36.You can only know who the actual best fighter really is when they fight each other in their prime when they still have their quick reflexes,power & endurance.Mayweather beating old men who no longer have their skills means nothing.Oscar fought Quartey when he had just made his 29th birthday & Quartey had gone 20 months with out a fight & Oscar had gone 15 months with out a fight did you forget about that.Quartey looked bad in his last fight because his last fight was against Lopez who all top WW avoided.Vargas was still a young man & fought a great fight & before i forget was also taking steroids for this fight which would have given him a big advantage yet Oscar still prevailed.The only two boxers i will give floyd credit for beating is Canelo (although Canelo was still very young) & Judah.Had Floyd fought & beaten a young Mosley,Oscar or Pacquaio Then i would put him up there as one of the greats but there is a reason why he avoided them when they were young.All great fighters have losses on their records & that is because they fought other great fighters.Floyd puts himself up there with Robinson that is a joke.Robinson went 93 fights without losing & just 1 loss in his first 129 fights that is greatness.He moved up to middle weight 160 when he was 29 years old & would go on to win the middle weight belt a record 5 times & at a time when there was only 1 belt to fight for so you had no choice to fight the best to win it & defend it against the best.Robinson is the reason P4P saying came about.Floyd is no where near the great Robinson who ducked no one.

[cyril layman]

Exactly they don't. And fighters don't do that. They finish strong. It's what I liked about Mosley. A week later on HBO, I remember he was ahead, had a guy beat and still fought hard. Did the same thing later in his career when he was well ahead of Margarito. And in both cases, Mosley actually got the late stoppage. If at all possible, you wanna try not to leave it in the hands of the judges because you never know what idiots are judging the fight. But if you have to, you close the show strong.

I like Mosley & don't think he gets the credit he deserves.I think had Mayweather had the back bone to fight Mosley when Mosley was even in his early 30's Mayweather would have lost.A 39 year old Mosley seriously hurt Floyd in the second round not once but twice but at 39 didn't have the skills left to finish it.About idiot Judges how about Mayweather Vs Castillo 1.Every body I have ever talked to think Castillo won that fight & copy box numbers also say that.Castillo landed 203 of his punches to Floyds 157.Castillo landed 40% of his punches to Floyd's 35%.Castillo was the one coming forward 90% of the fight.

[Anthony342]

I like Mosley & don't think he gets the credit he deserves.I think had Mayweather had the back bone to fight Mosley when Mosley was even in his early 30's Mayweather would have lost.A 39 year old Mosley seriously hurt Floyd in the second round not once but twice but at 39 didn't have the skills left to finish it.About idiot Judges how about Mayweather Vs Castillo 1.Every body I have ever talked to think Castillo won that fight & copy box numbers also say that.Castillo landed 203 of his punches to Floyds 157.Castillo landed 40% of his punches to Floyd's 35%.Castillo was the one coming forward 90% of the fight.

Ah interesting numbers. Then I imagine round by round Castillo probably lands more than Floyd. Sounds like a matter of the bigger name or the bigger punches getting the nod. I said the same about Mosley and Mayweather and someone pointed out here that Mosley asked for too much and priced himself out of that as the reason it didn't happen sooner. Still didn't happen though and that's always gonna be the criticism with Floyd. That he either didn't always fight the best available opponents when he became a big name or didn't fight them at their best. Doesn't really matter why they don't happen. They still didn't happen, so it still has to be looked at as a negative. Same with Paquiao fight. 2009-2010 was the best time, but we didn't get it until 2015. The drug testing always sounded like an excuse to me to prolong negotiations. Even if Manny had just said yes, then there would've been more excuses and would've still been kept waiting. That's been debated plenty on here though. What matter is it didn't happen when it should've and that's still gonna work against Floyd.

[cyril layman]

Ah interesting numbers. Then I imagine round by round Castillo probably lands more than Floyd. Sounds like a matter of the bigger name or the bigger punches getting the nod. I said the same about Mosley and Mayweather and someone pointed out here that Mosley asked for too much and priced himself out of that as the reason it didn't happen sooner. Still didn't happen though and that's always gonna be the criticism with Floyd. That he either didn't always fight the best available opponents when he became a big name or didn't fight them at their best. Doesn't really matter why they don't happen. They still didn't happen, so it still has to be looked at as a negative. Same with Paquiao fight. 2009-2010 was the best time, but we didn't get it until 2015. The drug testing always sounded like an excuse to me to prolong negotiations. Even if Manny had just said yes, then there would've been more excuses and would've still been kept waiting. That's been debated plenty on here though. What matter is it didn't happen when it should've and that's still gonna work against Floyd.

Pacquaio originally said no,then when he figured out the fight wasn't going to happen he quickly made a turn around & said okay,but Floyd still said no.Mayweather was afraid of Pacquaio weather you admit that or not.Pacquaio & everyone else tried to make that fight happen & Mayweather did everything [possible not to fight him until he saw that Pacquaio skills had really slowed & the pressure was really on that he agreed to it.Once again your numbers do not add up it was 2008 that the fight started to get talked about but when Pacquaio knocked Hatton out with one punch in 2009 in the 2nd round (something that took Floyd 11 rounds to do) that everyone started to get pumped up about this fight of coarse except Floyd of Coarse.Floyd had problems against south paws but Pacquaio wasn't your average south paw & Floyd was with out question scared of him.Again once Pacquaio figured out the fight wasn't going to happen with out the blood test he quickly did a turn around & this happened within a week of him originally saying no & Floyd still didn't want to fight him.There isn't 1 person i have talked with that believe Floyd beat Castillo in their 1st fight nor did any of the HBO announcers.Nor did HBO unofficial scorer Harold Letterman who scored boxing fights for over 30 years before joining HBO.You can come up round for round crap Floyd lost that fight.He also lost a 6 round fight very early in his pro career against a south paw this one was very very obvious but again was given a gift because he was a bronze Olympic Medalist & also his name.Floyd was a really good boxer with really good defensive skills but can't call him great because never fought & beat other great boxers in their Prime.Great are Robinson 1 loss in his first 129 fights.won middle belt 5 times that is great.Ali,leonard,Hagler,Hearns,Duran,Arguello,Pry or,Louis etc these fighters were greats.

[joseph5620]

Corrales was looking at a 2 year prison sentence for assaulting his girl friend right after the fight.Castillo was 29 when he first fought Mayweather & had over 50 fights under him & most believe he won their first fight & copy box numbers support this.This is what happens when 2 of the 3 judges are from 3rd world Countries.Castillo landed 203 punches to Floyd's 157 punches.Castillo landed 40% of his punches to Floyds 35%.Castillo was coming forward 90% of the fight.Floyd was given a gift decision.Hatton the man Pacquaio Knocked cold with one punch that Hatton. Floyd fights Brawlers & some of them good fighters but if you will notice he stays aways from boxers who have quick reflexes like Mosley,Oscar & Pacquaio.Sure he eventually fought all 3 & won,Mosley 39 Oscar 35 & Pacquaio 36.You can only know who the actual best fighter really is when they fight each other in their prime when they still have their quick reflexes,power & endurance.Mayweather beating old men who no longer have their skills means nothing.Oscar fought Quartey when he had just made his 29th birthday & Quartey had gone 20 months with out a fight & Oscar had gone 15 months with out a fight did you forget about that.Quartey looked bad in his last fight because his last fight was against Lopez who all top WW avoided.Vargas was still a young man & fought a great fight & before i forget was also taking steroids for this fight which would have given him a big advantage yet Oscar still prevailed.The only two boxers i will give floyd credit for beating is Canelo (although Canelo was still very young) & Judah.Had Floyd fought & beaten a young Mosley,Oscar or Pacquaio Then i would put him up there as one of the greats but there is a reason why he avoided them when they were young.All great fighters have losses on their records & that is because they fought other great fighters.Floyd puts himself up there with Robinson that is a joke.Robinson went 93 fights without losing & just 1 loss in his first 129 fights that is greatness.He moved up to middle weight 160 when he was 29 years old & would go on to win the middle weight belt a record 5 times & at a time when there was only 1 belt to fight for so you had no choice to fight the best to win it & defend it against the best.Robinson is the reason P4P saying came about.Floyd is no where near the great Robinson who ducked no one.

Castillo was a 29 year old world champion. He was in his prime. Unless you can point out somethimg in the ring to indicate that he wasn't then you don't have a case.

Hatton was unbeaten when he fought Mayweather. So what does Hatton against Pacquiao have to do with anything?


Shane Mosley was in the top 10 pound for pound when he fought Mayweather. That speaks for itself.



As far as Corrales, his future can't be used as an excuse for what happened in the ring that night. You're trying to create narratives to discredit Mayweather but the facts make them meaninless.



Quartey was dropped twice and didn't look like the same fighter before he fought Delahoya. And he never did after his near 2 year lay off. So obviously wasn't in his prime.

[Anthony342]

Pacquaio originally said no,then when he figured out the fight wasn't going to happen he quickly made a turn around & said okay,but Floyd still said no.Mayweather was afraid of Pacquaio weather you admit that or not.Pacquaio & everyone else tried to make that fight happen & Mayweather did everything [possible not to fight him until he saw that Pacquaio skills had really slowed & the pressure was really on that he agreed to it.Once again your numbers do not add up it was 2008 that the fight started to get talked about but when Pacquaio knocked Hatton out with one punch in 2009 in the 2nd round (something that took Floyd 11 rounds to do) that everyone started to get pumped up about this fight of coarse except Floyd of Coarse.Floyd had problems against south paws but Pacquaio wasn't your average south paw & Floyd was with out question scared of him.Again once Pacquaio figured out the fight wasn't going to happen with out the blood test he quickly did a turn around & this happened within a week of him originally saying no & Floyd still didn't want to fight him.There isn't 1 person i have talked with that believe Floyd beat Castillo in their 1st fight nor did any of the HBO announcers.Nor did HBO unofficial scorer Harold Letterman who scored boxing fights for over 30 years before joining HBO.You can come up round for round crap Floyd lost that fight.He also lost a 6 round fight very early in his pro career against a south paw this one was very very obvious but again was given a gift because he was a bronze Olympic Medalist & also his name.Floyd was a really good boxer with really good defensive skills but can't call him great because never fought & beat other great boxers in their Prime.Great are Robinson 1 loss in his first 129 fights.won middle belt 5 times that is great.Ali,leonard,Hagler,Hearns,Duran,Arguello,Pry or,Louis etc these fighters were greats.

Yep, that's pretty much what I think, that Floyd was afraid of Pacquiao too, which I was trying to say in my last post. I did admit that too. And I said the drug testing sounded like an excuse, as in an excuse for the fight not to happen sooner. So I did "admit that." Also said round by round Castillo probably wins too, so I don't know why the argument dude. Only time I disagreed with Lederman was in the first Holmes-Spinks fight because you gotta take the title from the champ.

[cyril layman]

Yep, that's pretty much what I think, that Floyd was afraid of Pacquiao too, which I was trying to say in my last post. I did admit that too. And I said the drug testing sounded like an excuse, as in an excuse for the fight not to happen sooner. So I did "admit that." Also said round by round Castillo probably wins too, so I don't know why the argument dude. Only time I disagreed with Lederman was in the first Holmes-Spinks fight because you gotta take the title from the champ.

Oh I agree to do not think Spinks beat Holmes or at the very least did enough to take the title from him.The second fight was even more in Holmes favour.Holmes never got the credit he deserves i have actually got him 3rd greatest HW all time & get a lot of crap for that but he did go on to defend his belt 19 consecutive times.The reason he doesn't get the credit is because of the era,there wasn't a lot of big named HW during his fighting days.People forget the Norton vs Holmes fight for the HW Belt which was fight of the year in 1978.He Knocked out Cooney who was undefeated.Stopped Shavers as Champion who is ranked one of the hardest HW punchers of all time.He lost to Tyson in his comeback at 38 years old & after being retired for 2 years with no tune up fight.Ali with out question is the greatest HW ever with Louis in a close second.Where would you put Tyson among HW all time?