Would Marciano be too small for today's heavyweight division ?

[Rusty Tromboni]

Marciano is definitely too small for modern Heavyweights.


Let's be honest, at best he's a 50-50 bet against Quarry, and Quarry was too small for Heavyweight back in the late 60's.

Marciano and Quarry would both be a force at Cruiserweight, though.

[QueensburyRules]

Your being a registered, thoroughbred halfwit and churl, no one listens to your idiocy.

Let me explain something. The members around here who recognize your churlishness as the ramblings of a halfwitted blatherskyte, started a little private club here on the forum in an area you cannot even get into. To you, it looks like it is closed and unused. Your lies are so intolerable and unentertaining that we decided we had to get away from you, and we were given permission to do so by a sympathetic administration.

So you have a lot of fun now, over here where you are allowed to still come and no one bothers much with you anymore.

- -Great, yer own private glee club...#foofooforyou...

[Larry the boss]

yes, because he was not only small but he lacked speed and skill

[The Old LefHook]

The big, windy bulls will be huffing uncontrollably by round 2, if they even make it that far. Those big men are also useless on a battlefield. See you boys after lunch over at Elysian Fields. Those of you who are allowed!

[them_apples]

Marciano is definitely too small for modern Heavyweights.


Let's be honest, at best he's a 50-50 bet against Quarry, and Quarry was too small for Heavyweight back in the late 60's.

Marciano and Quarry would both be a force at Cruiserweight, though.

Nah he'd sleep quarry. Cause Quarry wouldn't be able to put him away, but he could put Quarry away for certain.

[Rusty Tromboni]

Nah he'd sleep quarry. Cause Quarry wouldn't be able to put him away, but he could put Quarry away for certain.

How is it certain?

Quarry might have had stamina issues. Of course he was prone to cutting.

But Marciano sort of plays into Quarry's wheelhouse, and is the more straight-forward, predictable fighter.

I don't wanna suggest Quarry had Marciano's firepower or stamina/work-rate. But a lot of what separates their legacies is the level of competition. Quarry met some of the absolute best Heavyweights ever, Marciano met some of the worst.

[MDPopescu]

Would Marciano be too small for today's heavyweight division ?

What about a highly skilled,modern fighter with incredible power, chin, hand and footspeed who happened to be exactly the same size as Marciano ? Would such a fighter be successful in the heavyweight division or just be too small ?

... not only Marciano... but also Ali (Foreman, Lennox Lewis would be too small...)

[QueensburyRules]

How is it certain?

Quarry might have had stamina issues. Of course he was prone to cutting.

But Marciano sort of plays into Quarry's wheelhouse, and is the more straight-forward, predictable fighter.

I don't wanna suggest Quarry had Marciano's firepower or stamina/work-rate. But a lot of what separates their legacies is the level of competition. Quarry met some of the absolute best Heavyweights ever, Marciano met some of the worst.

- -I've discussed and debated with some of the best, but you manage to litter every discussion with the most nonesensical trash imagined.

That Quarry cut easily may well be the understatement of the year! See Henry Cooper for reference.

[billeau2]

He was a small heavyweight back then. But heavyweights weren't small back then. They just weren't as blown up and heavy. Today's heavyweights are garbage. As soon as he starts putting hands down everyone would know what time it was. Sure he was 188 lbs in his prime but he was running 12 miles up and down hills and boxing every day. When he retired he was 255 lbs and looked like someone who would fight today. Rocky would still beat the **** out of everyone today on the simple fact that he is a different caliber of man than the guys today.

Ruiz is barely 6 feet and he dusted Joshua without even moving his head. There are pictures of Ruiz standing beside people who are 6 ft and he is neck and neck if not shorter. And Joshua was certainly more than 4 inches taller than him.

I don't think all the heavyweights are garbage but a lot of them would have a hell of a time fighting someone with the activity level and skills of Marciano. Some good points made.

All I can say is there is tape on this forum and around that break down and deconstruct Marciano. Goldman trained him very well to do certain things. Its on the tape if people want to see it. Tape don't lie. The same reason Haye with very limited skills can fight upwards, including the ambush strategy Haye used, is similar to how Marciano would deal with size. There are not many guys who can fight using legitimate pressure strategies.

Lets be clear here: Marciano was a pressure fighter. Most similar perhaps to Holyfield. Both men had power, could punch as well as any boxer puncher, but when in their element liked to force the opponent to make mistakes and liked to just **** away. Holyfield could assume the role of a boxer and win though, like he did against Bowe, the time he won. While Marciano could not assume this role, IMO if we took the three most relentless pure pressure fighting heavyweights, Frazier, Holyfield and Marciano I would give Marciano the edge as a pure pressure fighter, while both Frazier and Holyfield could do more things well, and even assume the role of a puncher.

heres the thing: the bigger guys, the guys with reach did not fight this way because they used distance and punches more accurately and less as a crushing force...For example Liston was a great finisher because he would measure his opponent for the shot. Ditto fo Dempsey who could apply pressure as well as anyone, but ultimately got it done with punching accurately and hard.

This issue always gets bandied around...One way to look at it is if Rocky needed to he could have easily gained 50 pounds... lol. Think about that for a moment. But why would he, or Dempsey need to? James Tunney wrote that the most size could benefit a man was to be 190 odd pounds. I don't agree with that but its an interesting observation.

Edit: I just have to say that some posters, some of our resident historians, etc have taught mt to look carefully at Marciano. Marciano's punches look strange... Partially because he was a catcher, and catchers are taught to throw right from the ear, straight overhand...because that is the only way to get that throw to second when bases are stolen. But if we observe our primate cousins and watch them throw blows we will notice that they punch overhand as well, the hand comes from over the head and down, crushing that which is beneath it with crude force.

Marciano punches loop from this same top position. It makes his punches very crude looking, but very efficient and very easy to throw from a grounded position, hence the heavy hands. If I am coming fowards as a trained fighter I will try to hit straight to the target as my weight settles. Even a hook is paradoxically straight from a 90 degree angle when thrown properly, with the weight settled. This means that one way to make my punch null and void is to not let me settle my weight... So while the trained punch has advantages, it also has disadvantages.

If on the other hand I am punching over my head, my body, my weight is already settled as I throw the blow because it is extending straight down into the target and not straight horizontally into the target like a jab... A cross is actually similar because my weight is already settled where the fist will arrive on impact. With Marciano he didn't have reach anyway, so why try to punch straight? Instead he simply pressured, and threw his hands from a position where his punches took advantage of gravity...they were crushing blows not ball point hammers tapping a vital area. You can see this on tape, it is why Marciano looks funny punching.

[Jim Jeffries]

Be a bit small for LHW tbh. Forget about HW or even CW.