Prime Tyson could have been the best ever??

[Brassangel]

It's reasonable to question steroids in Mike Tyson's career. It should also be noted, however, that some people are simply phsyical freaks, capable of appearing in shape when they have to. Just because Mike looked great against McNeeley, doesn't mean he was in as good of shape (ie: stamina, lung capacity, etc.), as he looked.

I read somewhere about Arnold Schwarzenegger (sp?), long after he stopped juicing and the effects had worn off, that he would let his body go in between films. Then, a couple of weeks before shooting began on a new movie, he simply did his old bodybuilding routine (minus the 'roids, of course), and he looked like a million bucks.

Tyson probably never took them as a kid, though he naturally filled out. He probably started getting chubby (238 lbs.) after his last fight before prison due to lack of activity. Tyson, post Rooney Tyson that is, was notorious for taking lots of lazy time in between fights and simply working out as little as three or four weeks before the fight took place. If, while doing this, he was able to shed nearly 20 lbs in such a short time, I could see how he cut all the way down to 200 exercising day in, day out for nearly 4 years. A change in diet or rehydration methods in a real boxing gym could also account for a jump back to 220 in a few months' time. It was the weight he was comfortable fighting at, so it would make sense that he would do what he could to get back there.

Or he just took steroids...I really have no clue. I'm merely speculating.

[BKM-]

My concern is more the drop off of 30-40 lbs not what he looked like at 220 lbs. If you are natural then your body plateaus as you hit your late 20's, then you start having trouble keeping weight off, not retaining 30-40 lbs of lean muscle mass.

I'm naturally a heavyweight and haven't seen south of 210 since high school. I'm built very similar to Tyson but a little taller at 6'0. I've went through phases of training/not training/watching what I eat/not watching what I eat etc....and my weight floats between 220-250, and before you get visions of of Jabba The Hut I have 18 inch arms and a waist that only fluctuates between 32-36 inches.

I have seen roid users drop 30 lbs like it was nothing going off cycles, and it raises an eyebrow to me when Tyson allegedly did the same. I'm not making a flat out accusation just questioning.

Then again, the combination of a diffirent diet and workout must have contributed to the loss of mass as well. Tyson ate a lot(overweight before fights, even today he walks in at around 250), he needed the food to keep his build. A lot of Tyson's family members were obese, and he carried these genetics as well as far as I can tell. So he basicely goes to jail, doesn't get as much food, works out and lift weights for years. Keeps a lean ripped physique, then gets out of jail to fight again and gets back to his old diet and is back to his old weight, only with a more impressive look because of the training he did for years..and because Tyson was this genetic freak, he could get back to this physique in maybe half a year. Just my thoughts.
Oh btw, I think that it's possible Tyson took steroids much later in his career, though. Such as before the Etienne fight.

Well shoot, if that's the way you interpretated my post, Yaman, then perhaps I didn't explain myself well enough because my post was intended to show that Tyson was not only physically fit (in the "lean" sort of way), but had also reduced his overall size down to about 200 or so when he came out.

I think I also threw something in there about how people became su****ious of Tyson & steroids because he went from a physically fit 200 (apx) pound man when he came out of prison, to a muscular 220 when he faced McNeeley, which all happened in a span of something like four or five months.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Very well then, no problemo. But I think now it does in this post.

[The Iron Man]

I think Tyson could have been the best heavyweight ever, and if we are talking about primes then he probably was.

As for a prime Lewis beating a prime tyson, i think tyson would win this. Put it this Way, Douglas, Rahman and McCall are around the same level of fighter and in his Prime Lewis lost to two "Douglas'

[catskills23]

tyson was never 200 pounds when he was released from prison . That is pure crap he was 240 pounds at least.

[Brassangel]

You can question Sabbath's opinions, but rarely his sources. I remember reading that Tyson was pretty lean when he came out of prison. Whether it had anything to do with juice, or simply a different workout schedule/diet is what's in the air.

[The Iron Man]

In Prison Tyson focused alot on Weights, were as before he was doing more push ups, press ups the only weight training he really done were Rolls.

[Brassangel]

Weight/strength training is a great way to shed pounds, if it's high rep workouts not focused on bodybuilding.

Ah, this thread got boring...

[FUMIN 88]

Hi everyone this is my first post. I was watching old Tyson tapes and i couldnt help but think to myself what would have happened if Cus never died, and rooney stayed as tysons trainer. It seemed that after rooney left tyson stoped training, thought he was unbeatable, partied way too much, and stop being the scientific fighter he once was. I was wondering if cus never died would mike tyson have gone down in history as the greatest heavyweight ever?? It seemed cus was the only one who could completely contol mike. If rooney stayed with tyson the only fighters that would have a chance in my opinion would have been Holyfeild or the late Foreman, maybe Riddock bowe, or Lennox Lewis?? Thoughts???

no................

[ForemanCrossArm]

Honestly, I think Tyson was too small to be the greatest HW of all-time. His career was over when Buster got up from the uppercut in the 8th round [and when Bruno retired, ha, joke.] and proved that if your a big enough HW with enough talent and/or heart you are going to be able to wear him down, hurt him, and put him out of his misery eventually.

Had it not been Buster then it would've been Bowe, or Foreman, but one of them would've done the exact same thing. Lennox Lewis of the early 1990's probably would've gotten floored, he didn't have the bulk to surive the uppercut at that point-and-time.

[Brassangel]

I don't think that Foreman in 1990's beats Tyson. Contrary to the belief that it would happen like it did with Frazier, Tyson can actually fight at mid-range. He used the quick, triple jabs to get where he needed to be, and could fire from any position. He had much greater handspeed than Foreman did, and I don't think he would have had problems hitting home. It would be a tough fight, but an old George Foreman doesn't win the title in the 90's if Tyson hadn't gone to prison. I think that Tyson could win the fight much the same way that Morrison did, only with a little more excitement.

Furthermore, big, strong men aren't a formula for beating him. He gave up height, reach, (and heart), in nearly every professional fight he fought. Consider that, after Douglas, he fought Ruddock twice, a man who stood 6'3", weighed 230+ pounds, and hit just about as hard as Mike did. Donovan was a legit contender for a good stretch, though he never quite got there. Ruddock was not afraid of Tyson, and he proved that he could take bombs, deliver bombs, fire a solid jab, and go the distance if necessary. Yet, Tyson didn't fold, he didn't quit, and he didn't get frustrated. He just kept working; it was a side of Tyson that we never saw before, and we never saw again. These two fights were proof that Mike could have gone somewhere.

I don't know how many times this has to be said, but it seems that every time you turn around, someone is saying that, "Tall guys who weren't afraid of Tyson would have eventually beaten him...", and "Holyfield, blah blah blah.." Holyfield didn't prove anything. He beat a Tyson that had 4 years away from the ring, and it took him 11 rounds of Mike standing absolutely still before the ref decided to stop it. Holyfield himself has said in multiple television interviews and news articles, to this day, "I know I didn't fight the real Mike Tyson...." and, "I got into the best shape, mentally, physically, and when I got into that ring, expecting to fight a monster, he just stood there while I threw punches. I knew something wasn't right." The 2nd fight...well, I've commented on that one plenty of times.

I get so frustrated for being among the few who view this character with a non-bias view. To the posters here, Tyson is either "unbeatable if he kept Rooney," or, "he reached his best, and it ******!". I guess the silliest part is the wasted energy I've just spent on this topic, once again, for the sake of eliminating the presupposed assumptions.

I'm old, and tired; I'm sure this whole thing will sound ******ed when I read it in the morning.

Great topic!