Would Marciano be too small for today's heavyweight division ?

[Dempsey19]

I don't think you understand my point about the weight... When you look at a survey for example and it says "the average American has 2.5 kids"... Or another example, The Biblical judge Solomon would not tell a distraught separated mother and father that they should "divide the kid in half."

The point Tunney was making and my point is that there is a limit to how much extra weight benefits a fighter in professional prize fighting. I doubt Ibuechi was 240 at his best but assuming he was, if you look at his actual size he is the perfect size and build for a heavyweight. Liston, more because of great reach, is also the perfect build and size for a heavyweight.

So lets take your numbers... Liston at 204 (that does sound about right) and Ibuechi at 240 (I question this) and use them as a range for the weight of an archetypical heavyweight... That means any guy weighing in at between these two numbers would fit the bill. It still makes sense about the weight. How that weight gets distributed is the other issue and if we look at Liston and Ibeuchi imo we get a good picture of how it would best be distributed as well.

So again, a perfect heavyweight fighting machine, built by the Gods themselves... I Would say between 210 (204 works) to 240 pounds, probably weighing in at around 220 or so... With no extra weight, but with weight accorded by size of neck, shoulders, and trunk strength (think the shoulders of Baer), or weight afforded by extra reach, (think Liston). Remember also that to have fast feet the weight will start affecting the legs past a certain point.

I disgree about Frazier and Marciano. But keep in mind that my point is not that Frazier would beat, or was better than Marciano. Floyd Patterson had more skill sets utilized in a conventional sense than both of them and never reached the heights of either of them.

Frazier at his best could time an opponent, had excellent head movements, a left hook, jab etc. Frazier also had faster feet. Marciano used an approach depending on being relentless and hitting heavy handed...Both men countered well, and had good underrated defensive capabilities. In the end Marciano was imo more relentless than even Smokin' Joe was, Marciano also had a unique method of wearing his opponent down with crushing shots. Something Goldman taught him when he saw that marciano had been a catcher.

I put Marciano above Frazier when we consider who was the more accomplished fighter. Sometimes it is more impressive to do a few things excellent than doing more things really well. That is unless one is Sugar Ray Robinson.

If you're bringing it down to 204 you might as well bring it down to 195 to include Michael Spinks who was a modern heavyweight champ who was proven in the superheavyweight era, which is more than can be said about men who had their hands full with the likes of Leotis Martin and were arguably out-boxed by David Tua.

[Ascended]

The topic is ****** it was heavier people back then who wouldn't make it cause they were trash on a technical level

[Ascended]

So joe from the same era wouldn't do good like I always said but rock would? even though he was just as outdated which one is it ?person who used to keep it real then became crazy and obviously has bad vision

[Willow The Wisp]

The topic is ****** it was heavier people back then who wouldn't make it cause they were trash on a technical level

You know nothing about boxing history. Why would you read and post on a topic you have no desire to know anything more about? To troll? Is that normal?

[Ascended]

You know nothing about boxing history. Why would you read and post on a topic you have no desire to know anything more about? To troll? Is that normal?

Explain how I know nothing you crazy person when everything I say is on video that obviously means I know what I'm seeing like your really nuts how about not using ****** follower quotes that make no sense and never have idiot

Its no post i ever made where i lied saying something thats not true so your calling me a liar which I have seen you and others lie mutiple times

which would mean as your vision is bad that you know it since your vision isn't good so your seeing something that you think is right but its not


Or do you mean not knowing as using ****** quotes/lies pretending to be blind like you and others well no I dont know boxing and never will if thats your meaning of not knowing

people like me who can see we know since 70s-90s are way more advanced and smoother in their movements then 50s-when boxing first started which means are good vision is the only thing that matters

And no i don't think its normal to act blind like you and others or maybe its not a act and you and others really do have bad vision

[Ivich]

You know nothing about boxing history. Why would you read and post on a topic you have no desire to know anything more about? To troll? Is that normal?

Be kind,I don't think our friend is dealing with a full deck.

[StarshipTrooper]

The Suzy Q looks like a baseball throw. I don't know about Mr T but Piper was an interesting guy.

That's because it WAS a baseball throw. Marciano was a baseball catcher before he became a boxer. He threw his right hand in exactly the same way that he'd throw out a base stealer at second base.

[dreamroom]

Yes, he would be able to compete at a high level, especially with the modern day advanced training and nutrition.

[Dr. Z]

Very small and very limited to deal with the 6ft6+ heavyweights of today. Any of them would box him easily and KO him later.totally different weight classes. He'd even be small for today's cruiserweights.

Yes, and I said he going up three weight classes to Cruiser weight, ( Up to 200 lbs ) Bridge weight ( up to 224 ), the Super heavyweight ( 225 and up ). This is vs modern skilled fighters. There comes a point where Johnson, Louis and Rocky ( Ring Legends ) are giving up too much in weight, reach, and height to beat a skilled Super heavyweight. Not the guys on film in back and white who were as not skilled, accomplished or good....just big.

It like asking a lightweight to beat not a welterweight or a middle weight, but a light heavyweight! The difference in hight, reach and weight are about the same! Can the little guy win, sure he can. Will he? I highly doubt it.


There's always one gotcha guy in the crowd but say what about Usyk? What about him! He's a 6'3", 78 " 225 pounds heavyweight who's a skilled mobile southpaw. And he got a heck of a chin and stamina to match. Does the fighter your advocating meet these dimensions and style?

[Willow The Wisp]

Yes, and I said he going up three weight classes to Cruiser weight, ( Up to 200 lbs ) Bridge weight ( up to 224 ), the Super heavyweight ( 225 and up ). This is vs modern skilled fighters. There comes a point where Johnson, Louis and Rocky ( Ring Legends ) are giving up too much in weight, reach, and height to beat a skilled Super heavyweight. Not the guys on film in back and white who were as not skilled, accomplished or good....just big.

It like asking a lightweight to beat not a welterweight or a middle weight, but a light heavyweight! The difference in hight, reach and weight are about the same! Can the little guy win, sure he can. Will he? I highly doubt it.


There's always one gotcha guy in the crowd but say what about Usyk? What about him! He's a 6'3", 78 " 225 pounds heavyweight who's a skilled mobile southpaw. And he got a heck of a chin and stamina to match. Does the fighter your advocating meet these dimensions and style?

Size is a martial arts "skill" in & of itself, no
Doubt about it. Size matters! But with a Flyweight and a Nikolay Valuev all sharing the same physiology, there IS a dufus cuttoff where the gains in mass, height and presumed strength and resilience become overtaken by losses in speed, stamina, coordination and explosiveness or "snap". But as the medium height and weight of the adult male edges up, all the boats rise and the dufus line rises with it. This creates an extra wrinkle for heavyweights alone when compating the old timers with the modern models.

Leon & Michael Spinks, Osvaldo Occasio, Chris Byrd, James Toney, Roy Jones Jr., Orlin Norris, Mike Tyson, Jeremy Williams, Herbie Hide, David Haye, Michael Moorer are a few that slipped into the top 10 or 15 in fairly recent times who were smallish or short. Usyk spend allot of his career slim, but he's at the lower end of the perfect size heavyweight.