Football Soccer Football Soccer Football Soccer

[BM dnobagaV]

Sevilla can�t be stopped in the Europa League... I expected Inter and their infinite talent to overpower them, but damn. I�m really curious what is holding them back from taking the next step.

[hayZ]

I mean he had an amazing supporting cast at Argentina (far above Portugal) and has also had that at Barca (since Xavi/Inestia left).. Most clubs would kill to have the likes of Greizman/Suarez and co.. Argentina (as they usually do) had a ridiculous amount of attacking talent.. Higuain, Di Maria, Aguero + more.. but they never managed to get it all together.. Even when they made the world finals vs Germany it was more down to a very solid defense sneaking 1-0 wins or winning on penalties

IDK i think Messi is heavily overvalued and the likes of Xavi/Inesta are not given the credit they deserve. Thinking back to the Barca teams that beat United in the finals.. they also had Puyol/Pique/Abidal/Busquets at their peak.. who were rock solid at that point.. Barca legitimately at that point had 3 out of 4 of the best players in the world

As for some of Hayz argument i think Ronaldo moving from more of a winger (early man utd days) to more of a out and out striker and being less involved with build up play.. is not actually a knock on him imo.. it's a positive. He was able to adapt his style and continue to dominate at a top level..

At the end of the day the amount they have won is fairly even. Messi more leagues and Ronaldo more CL i believe.. but i really think the International success and playing in multiple leagues sways it for Ronaldo

Suarez has been great for Barca. Not downplaying him but he is definitely a 3-4 years past his best. He's so good that he can still compete at the top level however.

I remember during the 2010 world cup there is a famous photo where Messi is marked by like 6 of the opposition players. No matter how good you are, you still need support from others. That tournament, I remember every time he got the ball he always seemed to do the right thing. Always a positive movement that improved his teams position on the pitch. No negative back passes and staying static. I think during his whole time at Argentina, he legit had one world cup where he actually had a good level of defence. Usually Argentina are SO attack-heavy. You can tell since Mascherano left/declined their defence went to ****.

I think Ronaldo had a better team for the last 3 years he was there. That team won the CL 3 years in a row. He's also worked with the better managers IMO than Messi. He's worked under Jose, Fergie, Rafa, Ancelotti and Zidane. Messi has had Guardiola and that chap who passed away from cancer who people regarding as a good manager for a bit. I think overall Messi probably had a better team for a longer period of time but make some people on here make it seem like he's sort of system player. No matter what system you have, the guy has proven time and time again...he takes on 2-3-4 players and scores no system accounts for that. He creates something out of a dead situation. Ronaldo earlier in his Real Madrid career could do that for a few years but as his legs started to go a bit he changed his game. If Ronaldo didn't get the service, he isn't creating something out of nothing like Messi...well he could but no way near as often. Messi often looks around, sees no one is in a good place for him to play off so takes on a few players and scores. They play around him because he is THAT good. He proves it time and time again. Barca have done a TERRIBLE job in the transfer window post Neymar and it shows. There is SO much pressure on Messi to deliver game in game out that when he doesn't score/assist, people think he's terrible. The guy is 33. Where are the guys hes supposed to be mentoring? Like Ronaldinho did with him for a few years.

I think Iniesta/Xavi are heavily valued imo, it's just the stats prove without a shadow of a doubt Messi is better. Let's just use the eye-test, when you watch them and Messi player. I think EVERY elite player that has played with Messi will tell you of that. When you've got the likes of Henry who are almost in awe of the guy when he was only like 19. It tells you something.

Griezman was a weird buy IMO I didn't see the need for it. He plays in a similar position to Messi and doesn't really play as deep as Suarez. They should have bought someone to play Suarez's role. Dembele was meant to be the guy to run it for them but he's SO injury prone that he is basically not even a factor anymore.

[Sparked_26]

Griezemann would score 20 league goals for any side in premier league. Literally any of them.

[MOTHERDUCKER]

Suarez has been great for Barca. Not downplaying him but he is definitely a 3-4 years past his best. He's so good that he can still compete at the top level however.

I remember during the 2010 world cup there is a famous photo where Messi is marked by like 6 of the opposition players. No matter how good you are, you still need support from others. That tournament, I remember every time he got the ball he always seemed to do the right thing. Always a positive movement that improved his teams position on the pitch. No negative back passes and staying static. I think during his whole time at Argentina, he legit had one world cup where he actually had a good level of defence. Usually Argentina are SO attack-heavy. You can tell since Mascherano left/declined their defence went to ****.

I think Ronaldo had a better team for the last 3 years he was there. That team won the CL 3 years in a row. He's also worked with the better managers IMO than Messi. He's worked under Jose, Fergie, Rafa, Ancelotti and Zidane. Messi has had Guardiola and that chap who passed away from cancer who people regarding as a good manager for a bit. I think overall Messi probably had a better team for a longer period of time but make some people on here make it seem like he's sort of system player. No matter what system you have, the guy has proven time and time again...he takes on 2-3-4 players and scores no system accounts for that. He creates something out of a dead situation. Ronaldo earlier in his Real Madrid career could do that for a few years but as his legs started to go a bit he changed his game. If Ronaldo didn't get the service, he isn't creating something out of nothing like Messi...well he could but no way near as often. Messi often looks around, sees no one is in a good place for him to play off so takes on a few players and scores. They play around him because he is THAT good. He proves it time and time again. Barca have done a TERRIBLE job in the transfer window post Neymar and it shows. There is SO much pressure on Messi to deliver game in game out that when he doesn't score/assist, people think he's terrible. The guy is 33. Where are the guys hes supposed to be mentoring? Like Ronaldinho did with him for a few years.

I think Iniesta/Xavi are heavily valued imo, it's just the stats prove without a shadow of a doubt Messi is better. Let's just use the eye-test, when you watch them and Messi player. I think EVERY elite player that has played with Messi will tell you of that. When you've got the likes of Henry who are almost in awe of the guy when he was only like 19. It tells you something.

Griezman was a weird buy IMO I didn't see the need for it. He plays in a similar position to Messi and doesn't really play as deep as Suarez. They should have bought someone to play Suarez's role. Dembele was meant to be the guy to run it for them but he's SO injury prone that he is basically not even a factor anymore.

Idk if Ronaldo even had the better team then Barca (the last 3 years).. Barca won almost every title.. but Ronaldo in particular would come up clutch in the CL and carry Madrid over the line on many occasions

I am not sure how stats is a fair way to measure Inesta/Xavi vs Messi anyway.. Xavi in particular played far further back.. both were instrumental in turning Spain from chokers to the best international team in the world for a decent stretch.. i think it says it all that Barca never really got back to the same level after they retired..

I think its a bit of a cop out to just blame barca transfers aswell.. Madrid had been a revolving door of talent at times also.. and are hardly the most stable clubs

Its whatever anyway.. its close but I just think the CL wins.. Playing at a top level in 3 leagues.. having most of the CL goalscoring records and winning the euros puts Ronaldo over the edge unless something changes. Maybe i over value the CL as a United fan idk

[Sparked_26]

Messi potentially going for a move is so silly too.

Man gets paid half a million a week. Plus a transfer fee. Plus agents fees. Plus a signing on fee.

So no. Nobody is actually gonna be interested in him in reality. Even Arab owned clubs might bulk.

Why would you bother? For what? Because unless he's coming to England all the other leagues are dead. Bayern Munich win every year in Germany, Juventus in Italy, and PSG in France.

But even England. Unless Chelsea and Man U get closer we are gonna have to climb down from our high horse too. But at least there is some sort of semblance of fairness that should allow teams to be more competitive.

So really it is only City or PSG.

City arent gonna spend hundreds of millions on a 33 year old just to win a league title they could win anyway with a few smart signings.

PSG could replace Neymar with Kepa playing in his position and win their league. Would it appeal to their owners vanity that much to have Messi there? I doubt it. Just seems pointless. It would be like having a mansion but then insisting it was demolished and it was made from gold bars instead. Everyone would think you were a di.ck.

It would be crass. So I dont think that would appeal to someone like Messi who has been treated like a deity for most of his adult life.

[MOTHERDUCKER]

Messi potentially going for a move is so silly too.

Man gets paid half a million a week. Plus a transfer fee. Plus agents fees. Plus a signing on fee.

So no. Nobody is actually gonna be interested in him in reality. Even Arab owned clubs might bulk.

Why would you bother? For what? Because unless he's coming to England all the other leagues are dead. Bayern Munich win every year in Germany, Juventus in Italy, and PSG in France.

But even England. Unless Chelsea and Man U get closer we are gonna have to climb down from our high horse too. But at least there is some sort of semblance of fairness that should allow teams to be more competitive.

So really it is only City or PSG.

City arent gonna spend hundreds of millions on a 33 year old just to win a league title they could win anyway with a few smart signings.

PSG could replace Neymar with Kepa playing in his position and win their league. Would it appeal to their owners vanity that much to have Messi there? I doubt it. Just seems pointless. It would be like having a mansion but then insisting it was demolished and it was made from gold bars instead. Everyone would think you were a di.ck.

It would be crass. So I dont think that would appeal to someone like Messi who has been treated like a deity for most of his adult life.

Yeah i don't know people are saying the situation at Barca is really bad

PSG stands out the most to me.. Maybe Neymar goes the other way? Messi feeding Mpbappe does sound kind of nice.. But the French league is really wack and doesn't mean anything.. I don't value winning Serie A that highly these days (if your on Juventus) but even that is a step above the French league

I don't think coming to the PL at 33 makes much sense tbh.. it was kind of a meme back in the day.. But i think the guy would just get ****ed up physically at this point. I remember a United
player doing him in the CL not that long ago and there was major outcry.. Now try having that happen every weekend

Edit: it was Smalling

[F l i c k e r]

I mean he had an amazing supporting cast at Argentina (far above Portugal) and has also had that at Barca (since Xavi/Inestia left).. Most clubs would kill to have the likes of Greizman/Suarez and co.. Argentina (as they usually do) had a ridiculous amount of attacking talent.. Higuain, Di Maria, Aguero + more.. but they never managed to get it all together.. Even when they made the world finals vs Germany it was more down to a very solid defense sneaking 1-0 wins or winning on penalties

IDK i think Messi is heavily overvalued and the likes of Xavi/Inesta are not given the credit they deserve. Thinking back to the Barca teams that beat United in the finals.. they also had Puyol/Pique/Abidal/Busquets at their peak.. who were rock solid at that point.. Barca legitimately at that point had 3 out of 4 of the best players in the world

As for some of Hayz argument i think Ronaldo moving from more of a winger (early man utd days) to more of a out and out striker and being less involved with build up play.. is not actually a knock on him imo.. it's a positive. He was able to adapt his style and continue to dominate at a top level..

At the end of the day the amount they have won is fairly even. Messi more leagues and Ronaldo more CL i believe.. but i really think the International success and playing in multiple leagues sways it for Ronaldo

The thing with discussing Messi though, is that millions of people have invested so much emotion into him that anything other than, Messi is a god, is met with stiff resistance.

Looking back on it, Messi probably hasn't been a piece to the puzzle since Iniesta and Xavi.

He's more like how Hazard was at Chelsea since those two left/retired. Even more so now than any time before.

Has a free role to do whatever. Everyone else has to do x, and if Messi is in position, give it to him, no questions asked and stand by.

Probably why Neymar wanted to leave so badly and Dembele has been put in the shed.

For me, even at 33, I'd like to see him go somewhere else. Because as is, I think an objective argument can be made for Messi's ability to elevate his team and it not just be favorable club, favorable league.

Because the only other sample of Messi we get to see is with Argentina and with Argentina, he can't even beat Chile and Peru ffs. Argentina haven't won south american cup since 1993 mind you. Yet have talent that would put many European nations to shame.

[F l i c k e r]

Messi potentially going for a move is so silly too.

Man gets paid half a million a week. Plus a transfer fee. Plus agents fees. Plus a signing on fee.

So no. Nobody is actually gonna be interested in him in reality. Even Arab owned clubs might bulk.

Why would you bother? For what? Because unless he's coming to England all the other leagues are dead. Bayern Munich win every year in Germany, Juventus in Italy, and PSG in France.

But even England. Unless Chelsea and Man U get closer we are gonna have to climb down from our high horse too. But at least there is some sort of semblance of fairness that should allow teams to be more competitive.

So really it is only City or PSG.

City arent gonna spend hundreds of millions on a 33 year old just to win a league title they could win anyway with a few smart signings.

PSG could replace Neymar with Kepa playing in his position and win their league. Would it appeal to their owners vanity that much to have Messi there? I doubt it. Just seems pointless. It would be like having a mansion but then insisting it was demolished and it was made from gold bars instead. Everyone would think you were a di.ck.

It would be crass. So I dont think that would appeal to someone like Messi who has been treated like a deity for most of his adult life.

PSG could potentially do cash + Neymar for him.

Other than for marketing reasons. I don't know why they would do that. It's like you said, they already win the league every year anyways.

City can't get done for the same offense. So they'll cook the books to show they can buy Messi and Uefa can't do anything about it. Not until they revise the rules.

But it's no guarantee for them because England is so much more different than other leagues. Objectively. So, Messi might do his Messi-like things but I doubt he's going to be 50 goals like he routinely does in Spain.


I'd still like to see him leave Barca though. If Messi really wanted to leave, 200 whatever million Mbappe was sold for, Barca could potentially accept.

----
Speaking of which, PSG vs Bayern on right now.

[TheCell8]

Di Maria is the biggest bum I've ever seen.

[siablo14]

******s......