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[Phenom]

I don't think Messi wanted Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann

Barcelona couldn't cope with losing Neymar and ended up overspending on those players had he stayed that money would've went to other areas and the club wouldn't be in the situation it is right now

PSG ruined Barcelona I don't know how anyone can blame Messi for the board **** ups

[Sparked_26]

I don't think Messi wanted Coutinho, Dembele or Griezmann

Barcelona couldn't cope with losing Neymar and ended up overspending on those players had he stayed that money would've went to other areas and the club wouldn't be in the situation it is right now

PSG ruined Barcelona I don't know how anyone can blame Messi for the board **** ups

That's the point isnt it? Why should Messi's thoughts on recruitment matter? But if you pay someone ?00,000 a week and have a president that is an open sycophant then what can you do? He holds so much sway.

Even Chelsea let Terry talk to Man City. Ferguson let Keane talk to Juventus.

I mean ultimately, Messi is still doing his job on an individual basis albeit in a 2 team league with ridiculous inequalities but their ethos on pandering to Messi has cost them. 3 players like that shouldn't really fail and like you say they didnt recruit in other areas.

That said that became their ethos anyway. To out galactico Real Madrid. They disappeared up their own arse ages ago.

Why is Arthur being transferred to Juventus and refusing to play?

[Phenom]

That's the point isnt it? Why should Messi's thoughts on recruitment matter? But if you pay someone ?00,000 a week and have a president that is an open sycophant then what can you do? He holds so much sway.

Even Chelsea let Terry talk to Man City. Ferguson let Keane talk to Juventus.

I mean ultimately, Messi is still doing his job on an individual basis albeit in a 2 team league with ridiculous inequalities but their ethos on pandering to Messi has cost them. 3 players like that shouldn't really fail and like you say they didnt recruit in other areas.

That said that became their ethos anyway. To out galactico Real Madrid. They disappeared up their own arse ages ago.

Why is Arthur being transferred to Juventus and refusing to play?

They had to pay because Messi could've technically left on free transfer 2 years ago if anything I think Messi has been too loyal to Barcelona I'm sure he could've made more had he left Barcelona

Again I don't see how those players failing is his fault the board hired the manager and made bad transfers the board made the decisions and are in financial trouble because of it hence Arthur Melo transfer

Messi still being there is about the only good news in Barcelona right now can you imagine where they would be without Messi this year

[F l i c k e r]

When you see a player like Coutinho go to Bayern Munich, come on as a substitution and wthin 14 minutes score 2 and assist 1 against...... Barcelona.

No way is it "them failing" it's clearly not that simple.

Messi has been put on such a pedestal that his club and country will forgo everything just so Messi can stand in the spot light at the end of the day.

I believe Barcelona will get on just fine without Messi. Because then, their players play to their strengths as a team. Not: get it to Messi, get Messi to score.

I wouldn't be surprised if Argentina suddenly lifted a cup without Messi either. Because then, Aguero would be allowed to win the golden boot. If not him, Icardi; if not him Dybala; if not him Di Maria; if not him Lautaro Martinez; if not him Lucas Alario; if not him, Lo Celso.... The riches that Argentia have is embarrassing.

There's really no objective excuse for Messi.

People give him a pass because of the emotional attachment they have to him. But I'd like to see him go somewhere else, then we can confirm how great he is. Join Man City and Guardiola, but if City finish #2, #3, #3 (36 years old then).. that's the end of the argument: Messi < Ronaldo.

[BodiesInFlight]

I can't wait for Messi and Ronaldo to retire, if only for the tedious drawn out argument of who is better to finally go away.

[Phenom]

I can't wait for Messi and Ronaldo to retire, if only for the tedious drawn out argument of who is better to finally go away.

It's not even Ronaldo or Messi I just don't think it's fair to blame Barca problems on him

Juventus are going to be the same situation as Barcelona new manager old team and the club has financial problems obviously that's not because of Ronaldo

[BodiesInFlight]

It's not even Ronaldo or Messi I just don't think it's fair to blame Barca problems on him

Juventus are going to be the same situation as Barcelona new manager old team and the club has financial problems obviously that's not because of Ronaldo

Nah I know, barca are a basketcase of a club. It's always been a bit shambolic how that club is ran. It doesn't help having to change president every so many years thus changing the direction each time.

I'm just sick of the argument as to who is better really. It's pointless and I just think it's a bit naff. Like xbox and playstation dorks arguing over the better console.

[F l i c k e r]

Juventus are still going to win that league or be in a tight race with Inter Milan for the Scudetto. That league is structured to where only Juventus really get any substantial revenues.

And best believe if Inter Milan don't win after all they have spent. They'll be sold to some other investment firm.

Same as Barcelona. People will blame everything and everyone but Messi. But he's the guy they are breaking their structure for– and he's the reason a 30 goal striker is played out of position and turned into Calvert-Lewin.

Remove Messi and you still have a damn good team. That's fact.

You could hand Barcelona to Allegri without Messi and I promise you, Barcelona will win La Liga in 1-2 seasons of Allegri managing.

[F l i c k e r]

Hell, I'll go full hot take. Hand Barcelona to Maurizio Sarri without Messi and in 2 seasons they will win La Liga.

[MOTHERDUCKER]

When you see a player like Coutinho go to Bayern Munich, come on as a substitution and wthin 14 minutes score 2 and assist 1 against...... Barcelona.

No way is it "them failing" it's clearly not that simple.

Messi has been put on such a pedestal that his club and country will forgo everything just so Messi can stand in the spot light at the end of the day.

I believe Barcelona will get on just fine without Messi. Because then, their players play to their strengths as a team. Not: get it to Messi, get Messi to score.

I wouldn't be surprised if Argentina suddenly lifted a cup without Messi either. Because then, Aguero would be allowed to win the golden boot. If not him, Icardi; if not him Dybala; if not him Di Maria; if not him Lautaro Martinez; if not him Lucas Alario; if not him, Lo Celso.... The riches that Argentia have is embarrassing.

There's really no objective excuse for Messi.

People give him a pass because of the emotional attachment they have to him. But I'd like to see him go somewhere else, then we can confirm how great he is. Join Man City and Guardiola, but if City finish #2, #3, #3 (36 years old then).. that's the end of the argument: Messi < Ronaldo.

I mean he had an amazing supporting cast at Argentina (far above Portugal) and has also had that at Barca (since Xavi/Inestia left).. Most clubs would kill to have the likes of Greizman/Suarez and co.. Argentina (as they usually do) had a ridiculous amount of attacking talent.. Higuain, Di Maria, Aguero + more.. but they never managed to get it all together.. Even when they made the world finals vs Germany it was more down to a very solid defense sneaking 1-0 wins or winning on penalties

IDK i think Messi is heavily overvalued and the likes of Xavi/Inesta are not given the credit they deserve. Thinking back to the Barca teams that beat United in the finals.. they also had Puyol/Pique/Abidal/Busquets at their peak.. who were rock solid at that point.. Barca legitimately at that point had 3 out of 4 of the best players in the world

As for some of Hayz argument i think Ronaldo moving from more of a winger (early man utd days) to more of a out and out striker and being less involved with build up play.. is not actually a knock on him imo.. it's a positive. He was able to adapt his style and continue to dominate at a top level..

At the end of the day the amount they have won is fairly even. Messi more leagues and Ronaldo more CL i believe.. but i really think the International success and playing in multiple leagues sways it for Ronaldo